NYMR Loco news

Seemed as though the perfect storm hit the moors today, resulting in mobilisation of all but the kitchen sink.
In the circumstances the way the problems were addressed and managed, was a credit to those involved.

 

Not that I'm making excuses per sa. But I feel one of the main problem affecting the Moors steam fleet, is the poor/variable water quality at the Pickering end of the line. Which as such is outside the Moors direct control. Granted they treat the supply, but it's pretty well always the "day after" so they are always fire fighting, the result being an almost constant loosing battle resulting in the steamers dropping like flies. It reminds me of the early days back in the seventies just after the re-opening in 1973. There was from memory a standing instrution not to take water at Pickering unless the engine was on the point of boiling dry and even then they were to only take enough to get back to Goathland and tank up properly there, before dropping down the bank to Grosmont. Certainly made engine management interesting for footplate crews, if they'd been rostered to work the Great Northern Tank 1247 [now part of the NRM collection] and the Lambton tanks 5+29. If 1247 was to be making a whole line round trip crews would take water both ways at Goathland for the trip, the Lambtons with good management might have made the whole 36 mile round trip [just] though crews would top'em up at Goathland too.

 

1247 rarly, if ever, made a full line trip to Pickering in normal service although it regularly ran to Levisham (where there is no water available to this day) when steam services were extended to there but before they went to Pickering. It left the line before steam services were introduced to Pickering, but I was present once when it came through one evening to do some shunting. The only water available at the time was from a hosepipe, but even after a couple of hours of filling from that there was barely enough in the tank to make it back to Goathland, which we did at an unearthly hour with both injectors failing to pick up and the loco in dire need of a drink!

 

Just curios to know what sort of issues is the Water quality causing?

 

Not all correct, I'm afraid. 1247 was certainly running through to Pickering on timetabled services in 1978 and 1979. I had several trips on it as a cleaner. Its mileage in 1978 was the second highest, beaten only by No.5.

I'm not too sure how yesterdays problems of sheared air pipe (S160) and unfortunately hitting a sheep and shearing off the steam chest drain cock (Q6) can be associated with water quality. The water quality, whilst variable, is managed.
You could say that it was all about sheep shearing! OK I'll get my coat!

 

The quality of the water presently coming through the mains seems to alter almost daily, requiring constant changes to the water treatment dosing and frequent stoppages for water changes. Pickering water is more of a problem than Grosmont water but both are varying.

 

Not all correct, I'm afraid. 1247 was certainly running through to Pickering on timetabled services in 1978 and 1979. I had several trips on it as a cleaner. Its mileage in 1978 was the second highest, beaten only by No.5.

I stand corrected! It was at that time that I moved south and had a few years when I was unable to visit the NYMR as a volunteer, so I must have missed it.

 

OK this go round it's been a case of parts being broken off due to hitting live stock and the like. As it stands I suspected on going water issues, which have caused problems for a fair part of last season and into this.

 

Why doesn't the NYMR install reverse osmosis plants as other have done?

 

From the post on the Grosmont MPD News facebook group (well worth joining if you have any interest in the goings on at the NYMR), it shows a boiler which I would guess as 45428's having the tubes re-expanded and re-beaded, so it looks like water might having caused some of the problems. As for Reverse Osmosis, it is quite expensive and wasteful on water if it is metered, although I am sure all possibilities will be being looked at.

 

Reverse osmosis isn't cheap and requires a building for it. It would require at least four plants. There are also people who don't think it is the be all and end all for water treatment. I'm no expert on the subject so can't comment.

 

Take the point re up front costs but elsewhere it has saved a fortune in boiler repairs & probably added years to the life of existing boilers compared to untreated. At washouts the debris is negligible as the water is to all intents pure. There is waste water from the process so the water use bill will be higher but tubes, frequently changed after about 4 to 6 years generally last 9 - 10 years with RO. It won't of course seal up leaks!

Perhaps lack of RO one of the reasons for a certain reluctance amongst some owners towards using their locos on the NYMR?

 

Well, RO certainly doesn't get used on main line locos! I'd be interested to know just how many railways have RO plants and whether all water columns or just some.

 

GWSR has RO, which I'm told is looked upon very favourably by loco owners.

 

I'd agree with a previous comment that the removal of fires at the end of services is a bigger concern than water quality surely? Water can be treated even without RO. Removing a warm fire from a loco that's just worked up some of the most challenging gradients in preservation is encouraging a faster contraction in the metal. Look through the NYMR threads and there are several locos been reported as failing with leaking tubes etc, 5428 just being the latest "victim". Appreciate Steve & Bean-counter know their railway better, but there seems an obvious solution there that would cost nothing and whilst not completely solve the failures record should at least help improve it.

How many other railways leave their fires in at night to die naturally, and reap the rewards with less boiler failures? Having spent time at Llangollen they certainly do, and except for 80072 copper issue and 7822 throatplate I can't think of any of their locos failing with boiler issues. Swanage and CVR leave fires in overnight, and their figures for leaking tubes is minimal. As a tangent doesn't 34072 hold the preservation record for longest number of years inservice on a single "ticket" with 13?

 

CVR doesn't, we just add 2x forms of treatment (though at 2am I can't think of them off the top of my head!).

 

Interestingly, the current spate of tube leakage is being put down to coal quality. The coal provided this season has had a very high ash content. The theory is that, because of this, the grate gets clogged up and this causes more air to be drawn in through the fire hole door with subsequent cooling. I'm told that previous bouts of tube leakage have coincided with high ash coal. Not sure that I agree with this theory, though. I personally think that fires should be left in and it was something that used to happen. It didn't stop tube/seam/stay leakage, though; one of the reasons it was stopped was because there were cases of locos losing water overnight.
We tend to look upon tube leakage with more concern these days. In BR times, locos would continue in service till the next washout/exam unless the leakage was severe.

 

SVR water is - RO at Bridgnorth & Kidderminster - not RO at Bewdley & Highley. However normally water is only taken at KDR & B'north with the other two being for infrequent emergency or Gala use only. If non RO water is taken drivers record the fact to allow treatment adjustments.

GWSR have RO at Toddington & Chelt Racecourse but I'm not sure whether Winchcombe is RO or not. Presumably most water is taken at Todd & CRC.

WSR do not have RO but water quality in the SW has always seemed less of an issue.

On all 3 lines the policy is to leave fires in at the end of the day.
On the WSR in particular the locos have to work hard though they do not face gradients as steep as the NYMR.
As far as I am aware leaking tubes do not occur on all 3 lines.

Coal used is - SVR - hard coal from Scottish/Yorkshire sources (was Welsh)
GWSR - Welsh
WSR - normally welsh

 

Swanage Railway water is mains drinking water, Coal is currently hard Russian after a couple of years of Welsh.
Daily boiler water tests every morning followed by dossing appropriate amounts of treatment in to the tank.
Fires, ash pans & smokebox cleaned every night with a fresh warming fire left under the door.
Tube & boiler problems virtually unknown.

 

If its like the SE then the water company will be sourcing its water from a mix of river and/or underground supplies. Down here these originate from chalk, sandstone or clay aquifers so you can go from what is commonly referred to as hard or soft water on a daily basis. Very difficult to keep on top of unless you have continual sampling. Some railways have invested in Osmosis purification plants and large tank storage I think. Severn Valley and KESR amongst others?

B