If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

North Staffordshire 0-6-2T

Discussion in 'National Railway Museum' started by Tim Light, Oct 28, 2016.

  1. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    24,527
    Likes Received:
    7,369
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Dubious? Acting fully within their terms of reference is dubious? You need to chill my friend and untwist thy undergarments.
     
  2. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    636
    I thought it was stated upthread that this is the 7th loco to be de-accessioned ?

    Jon
     
  3. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    12,602
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If they had acted fully within their terms of reference, how come no one knew about the deal until it appeared on Facebook?
     
  4. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    12,602
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    OK. My mistake, make that all UK mainline locos loaned out, is that better?
     
  5. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,822
    Likes Received:
    870
    Indeed and one of the previous ones, a Hunslet Austerity named 'Respite', is also a former Walkden collieries loco.
    A conspiracy in the making?
    (joke)
     
  6. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    636
    Don't get me wrong- I'm quite enjoying the debate , but but if loans are all that is acceptable for an item in the national collection, then surely no stock, ever, should be de-accessioned ?

    Jon
     
  7. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    12,602
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Maybe you are right, but if items are to be de-accessioned, the the process should at least be transparent and public.
     
  8. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    636
    Currently the disposals process needs to be in line with that detailed in post 116 and I would expect those criteria to be met in all cases.

    Jon
     
  9. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    265
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wouldn't say that nothing should be de-accessioned. Most of the other 6 locos were not great losses to the NRM, especially the Nord 4-6-0 and the Austerity leftovers. And with so many main line diesels preserved, I'm not sure that the NRM needs so many. And I won't mention the Bullet Train. Whoops, I just did! :D

    But seriously ... some items in the National Collection can be considered to be national treasures, and they deserve to be retained even if they breach the guidelines. The NER 2-4-0s are a case in point ... wonderful examples of Victorian engineering that just happen to have the same wheel arrangement. These are on loan to the Stainmore Railway and Darlington Museum (Head of Steam). There is absolutely nothing wrong with this arrangement and no need to de-accession either locomotive. But according to the guidelines, and using the rationale for the NSR engine, one of them should be disposed of. And perhaps the GER 2-4-0 and MR 2-4-0 should also fight for their right to remain in the collection.
     
  10. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    12,602
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    In my personal opinion that process is lacking in the area of communication.
     
  11. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    486
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    If the company (NRM) charged you out at £475+expenses, then the FR (the client) would be paying for your inspection as part of the loan agreement, therefore no cost to the NRM.


    Keith
     
  12. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    55
    Occupation:
    Boilermaker
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    And you think such an arrangement would increase the take-up rate of loans, bearing in mind those loaned the item will already be forking out for covered accommodation, transport, conservation and maintenance etc for the item?
     
  13. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,483
    Likes Received:
    608
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Railway Technician
    Location:
    10B / 5D / 27C / 71B
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Certainly hope so. Bellerophon's visit with the KHT has shown what can be achieved, and Dave S / Matt H / Rich W etc have all been very positive towards enhancing this relationship further. We all have ideas which may / may not come of, we shall have to wait and see how the next few months unfold. I just don't see why though someone who has contacted none of us, thinks it is ok to imply things aren't as they are - particularly in such a public manner.
     
    49010 and Avonside1563 like this.
  14. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    486
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    No I don't.
    The point I was making is that if there is a yearly NRM inspection fee to be applied for a particular item, then it would be the borrower paying that fee, not the owner. I pass no comment on whether such a fee is a good idea.


    Keith
     
  15. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    265
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Even if the NRM pays it, it's a tiny price to keep an item in the collection. Provided its worth keeping.
     
  16. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    265
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    But this whole thing about inspection fees is just speculative. We don't actually know what costs are incurred by the NRM in a long term loan arrangement.
     
  17. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    12,602
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    ... Or why this particular loco should have been treated differently to any of those on long term loan.
     
  18. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    6,575
    Likes Received:
    1,179
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    I think you need to go back and and read @Anthony Coulls post that was reshared earlier . No where does it say that the public have a say in what is de-accessioned. Maybe we should have a referendum (maybe not look at the mess the last one landed us in) What it does do is go through clear steps and approvals before it happens . It also says in some cases a new owner is identified , in other cases that they are then offered. If everything is just offered we'll have everyman dog and railway asking for the items . Can you imagine what our favourite person and reeder would ask for . Maybe there is a new TV show , NRM XFactor where each week items are pitted against each other and the one with the lowest votes gets de-accessioned !

    where I would be concerned is that any item de-accessioned goes to a home with the skills and resource to look after it and improve on its condition. There are examples of stock (GW Saloon , LNWR Crane) where in the nicest sense both got or remain at a very low point . Preservation really does need to be realistic about what can be saved. Don't forget as well the NRM hasn't a bottomless pot of cash , we all enjoy being able to go in for free but maybe were it properly funded and maybe through admission would we see some of the fringe items have an NRM future

    what is nice to see is that both the Foxfield Railway and Churnet Valley working together so that both can showcase their North staffs heritage and long may that continue
     
  19. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    12,602
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am not saying that the public should have a say, but that isn't the same as saying that the deacession shouldn't be public knowledge.
    You seem to be content that any deal is done behind closed doors without any other interested party even knowing about it.
    Not the way it should work when dealing with public property.
     
  20. huochemi

    huochemi Active Member Friend

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    270
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    So did the NRM give the loco away for free? If so, it seems a bit counter-inutitive for a cash-strapped organisation.
     
    Tim Light likes this.

Share This Page