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Next New Build to be completed

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Felix Holt, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

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    I have got a half eaten crunchie bar and a bag of Worcester sauce crisps on Lyn...........
     
  2. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Will any be in service by 2016??

    I would like to think the Saint would be the first, followed by the G5 and then maybe Beachy head? But that is purely guess work based on nothing. Without seeing the actual money in each of these projects banks to help them move forward its very difficult to answer any question.

    I suppose these questions can only be answered by someone from each project.

    82045 have stated they are quietly confident that it can be in steam for 2017 if funding keeps going.

    From 45551 i can say we are still on target for 2017 but who knows what hurdles pop up along the way with extra financial add ons. I would say that projects with £££ tend to move faster than ones reliant on volunteers as they can pay people to work on them 5 days a week but this only works if they can keep the money coming in!!!. And also pay multiple locations to do the different work to speed it up.

    So for 45551 we have the ongoing work at Llan on the main frames currently fitting the cylinders, work at Crewe on the inner firebox with the barrel about to be ordered possible delivery in April/May for the 2 rolled sections. Work at Tyseley about to start on the steel back and tube plate for the outer firebox, work about to start on the front bogie, SDR about to assemble the new wheelset for the front bogie, work at Alfreton on the tender constantly happening, and of course tonnes of smaller parts being done around the country on smaller parts.

    So apart from 82045 and 45551 that have both said possible 2017 has any other project stated a date?
     
  3. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    The reason Israel Newton (before Gordon Newton's retirement and the re-location of the company) could not deal with things larger than big narrow gauge or small stamdard gauge was due to the difficulty of handling larger items. The words "only" and "hop and a skip"! are very easy to utter.

    PH
     
  4. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    As noted above (I think), the 762 club has stated that 'Lyn' should be finished by the end of 2015, though not in revenue earning service until 2016. They still do need some new members though, so anyone keen on seeing Lyn run, pop over to the website and chuck some moolah at membership or sponsorship (or both!) :)
     
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  5. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    What, no L1 ???
     
  6. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Yep I agree Gordon's factory was the reason that he could'nt deal with larger boilers (I visited several times when we commissioned FR20's boiler)- even the lane leading to the works in Idle was a limiting factor, however he fully understood his limitations and just worked within his capabilities. However he was not involved in the extensive rebuilding of Taw Valley's boiler was he . . . . http://www.southdevonrailwayengineering.co.uk/news/taw-valley-boiler - and if you look at the bits not replaced they are not the difficult to manufacture bits, just those that have not worn out. So it does'nt look to much of a jump to me, but I'm only an engineer what would I know.

    It's encouraging to see the report on the progress to the Patriots boiler - not long now Paul . . . .
     
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  7. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    In building a new locomotive to an established design the most substantial hurdle is ensuring that the funding stream allows progress to continue with a visible momentum. The preservation movement has had to maintain a set of skills that allow it to operate steam locomotives on a daily basis. In order to keep engines working for the long term it has moved on to ensure that heavy repairs can be carried out. Another skill set protected and supported. I suppose that it was inevitable the range of skills in ready use by the movement made the move to creating from scratch inevitable.
    The various components of a locomotive chassis present few problems to those preservationists wanting to fill in the gaps in the list of deserving survivors. Only the boiler appears to cause concern. Small boilers are not so much of a problem since these have been constructed for some years. Large boilers are not so much of an issue as some might imagine. 4472's boiler is practically a new build.
    Boilers could be designed and built to modern standards. These would be cheaper to build and easier to maintain though this would not present a threat to the traditional designs that we wrestle with on a daily, costly basis since the heritage fleet needs to be kept running and in as authentic condition as possible. But for a new build why not? We do move on occasionally - one off polystyrene patterns for example.
     
  8. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Completely agree, just because someone gives to project A, don't assume they will give to project B if project A wasn't around, though I fully understand and to an extent share the sentiment that a few running is better than multiple numbers of part finished kits, to this end, although I wish all projects well, to date I've only given (modest but every bit n all that) money to 6880 and 1014.
     
  9. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Given how individualistic railway enthusiasts are - whether it is region, era, gauge of track, livery of locomotive, or none of the above and pertaining to rolling stock and or infrastructure - I find it highly condescending a suggestion that anyone really knows who would give what to where if X, Y, or Z charity/new build/appeal weren't in existence!

    There simply is no frame of reference nor evidence in the form of surveys/polls/etc to provide stats from which to make trends and thus be able to make reasonable assumptions on people's views.

    So if you are going to make a blanket statement with no basis in research about how people spend their money, perhaps rather than making said blanket statement, you would care to actually go out into the field and find out the answer to the question "Would you donate money to another railway preservation project if your first choice wasn't an option?"
     
  10. gios

    gios Member

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    My 'back of a fag packet' - (are there still such things ?) data together with personal observations indicates that it is the norm for a steam loco project to over run its predicted/hoped for completion date by a factor of two ! So, projects predicted for completion in two years time, can realistically be expected to steam in four years. There are of course exceptions to this somewhat general observation.

    This is not normally the fault of the of the groups concerned. Rather it reflects delays inherent in dealing with one off production at engineering companies, where batch CNC production is preferred, or unrealistic time frames given by the still somewhat amateur heritage movement.

    The question of financial support is more difficult, because individuals choices are somewhat personal and varied. From my own personal point of view, if I were not financially supporting the project I am presently involved with, I suspect my cheque book would stay closed.
     
  11. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Some projects (and indeed heritage railways) might raise more cash more quickly if they had online donation and membership facilities (I know that some do).
    I'm frankly amazed at the number that expect you to print and mail a form with a cheque... Just as well they're not here in Sweden where there are no cheques for individuals any more!
    There are impulse donators just like impulse buyers (I know, I'm an impulse donator!), and you need a donation button tied to PayPal or a credit card facility to catch these!
     
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  12. Corbs

    Corbs Well-Known Member

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    ugh... yep. The amount of times I see something I want to donate to, with 'simply print this form and send a cheque'. I don't even own a printer or chequebook! It usually takes me several weeks to remember to go to the post box on my way to/from work as well.
    Most of my donations are done on impulse and the ones with online facilities to donate are winning in this regard.
     
  13. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry couldnt resist........

    Were just launching our "£5er for the foundation ring appeal" for 1000 people to donate a simple £5 each to cover the cost. If you would like to see a "newbuild steam" and help get some more "Jam today" please visit http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=1

    If we can be in steam for 2017 that will be a project that will have had nothing to a working loco in under 10 years. Something NO other project (except Tornados P2 which is a second build so they already have supporters and credibility) on this list can say. And quite honestly a fantastic achievement, one which needs to happen as a fitting tribute to all those who gave their lives in WW1 and all subsequent wars.
     
  14. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    If 'Lyn' is in steam in 2016 they will have gone from nothing to in service in 6 and a half years! (Yes, I know it's NG, but you didn't specify gauge ;) )
     
  15. Corbs

    Corbs Well-Known Member

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    Likewise if 'Samson' steams this year, that will be 3 years from concept to completion ;)
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    When a steam locomotive is in operation, you can't see the boiler, only the outer cladding, the smokebox and, if you look inside the cab, the backhead (right word?). So, for a new build that is filling in a gap, as opposed to a loco like Flying Scotsman which has history, how much would it matter whether the boiler design is "authentic" or not?

    What would be the differences between, for example, the Patriot or County boiler built according to the original LMS/GWR drawings and one of the same outer dimensions built to a modern design?

    What about Tornado's boiler and the similar one that is to be built for the P2? Are they purely "to modern standards" or somewhere in between?
     
  17. Selsig

    Selsig Member

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    Both Earl of Merioneth in 1979 and David Lloyd George in 1992 went from nothing to complete in around 5 years, although both used power bogies that were already around, and the Earl's boiler had been built in the early 70s for fitting to what is now Livingston thompson.

    Taliesin, probably the first of the true "subscriber" new builds, went from concept to service in 11 years, and I remember Dad spending most of the first year and a half doing prep and paperwork prior to a public launch in 1990.

    John
     
  18. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick Member

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    I was going to mention "Samson". Also the Bagnall Sipat under construction in Scarborough.
     
  19. davejonesf2015

    davejonesf2015 New Member

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    The P2 seems to be moving at a really good rate. I would suggest it would without a boiler steam before the G5. They have struggled with funds apparently of late. That with the company RRNE going into liquidation, the company undertaking the build, I would see this one taking up a slow rate of progress in the near future.
     
  20. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Which one ?, the copper boilered one, the NyMR specific one, or the Southern one that can be converted to an LNER one ?
    :)
     

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