Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Being closest to the town is less important than a safe and convenient access accessible to all. On these grounds I agree Lydiate Lane does on paper appear to be the better location though even that wouldn't be as good as the original station.

 

Guessing this might be the best thread for a quick question... Just did some reminiscing by watching 'The Little Train to Lynton' which I had on video as a kid. Noticed that in a lot of the archive footage, trains seemed to be going at a fair rate! What would have been the line speed originally? Or is it just that old footage seems to speed things up?


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An interesting question, as the L&B was built under an act of Parliament not a LRO. The old Festiniog Railway apparently ran at 35 mph (the Little Wonder trials) or up to 40 (Boyd), not that I think the L&B films show them quite that fast.

 

Best not to speculate. Some on here will require a complete dynocar read out, in triplicate, countersigned by a JP, a priest, the Queen, and a CME they actually approve of, with the train having run in both directions, on completely level track, and with no wind.

 

There are occasional instances of fast running recorded, but these are the exception rather than the rule. As ever anything Boyd says should be taken with a pinch of salt though.

The timetables back in day have similar section times to today. So idea that 30 or 40mph running happened on a regular basis is unlikely. Even at it's peak i doubt the equipment on the FR could sustain this.
More likely they ran at the 17-18mph that is enough to keep to time at the moment.

Tim

 

I looked up timetables for the L&B (reproduced in Brown, Prideaux and Radcliffe).

They vary slightly from year to year; the winter 1923 timetable gave times in the range of:

Barnstaple - Lynton: 1h26 - 1h28
Lynton - Barnstaple: 1h29 - 1h47 (but that was one anomalously slow train; most were 89 - 90 minutes)

Those times were inclusive of all station time, though on the timetable at least that was minimal, even seemingly at the crossing station.

19¼ miles in 85 - 90 minutes is about 13 - 14 mph, inclusive of all stops. It's not quite clear to what degree, if any, trains ran ahead of schedule, but at first glance, you could probably achieve those times without much exceeding 20-odd mph. (I haven't looked in detail at the station to station times to see if there was any major variation in speed, for example dependent on gradient).

Tom

 

Ive just watched "Little Train to Lynton" on YouTube and the folks reminiscing talk about speeds of around 15 mph and that there were places they could jump on and off the train (to dodge tickets) because it was so slow.

Some trains appeared to be mixed, those no doubt were the slower ones in the timetable.

 

Goods stock was vacuum fitted so, apart from time spent in shunting, mixed working should not have slowed the journey time significantly.

PH

 

I'm sure this film is well known to L&B devotees, but for those who haven't seen it, it shows a trip, filmed from the front of a locomotive, from roughly Shapland and Petters siding in Barnstaple, across the river, through the newly-abandoned Barnstaple Quay station, through Barnstaple Town and on to the Rolles quay siding.

It was filmed in 1898, when the L&B was being constructed, and although there aren't any engines visible, you can see some of the first signalling and the newly built dock for the exchange sidings. Although I don't know for certain, the signs all around of construction suggest to me it was filmed very shortly before services on the L&B started.



Tom

 

No decision yet on the extension, but some good news from the Exmoor Planning people's expert report, posted on the L&B site (members' section) and on the L&B Yahoo Group.

 

Thanks for sharing James, big L&B fan but never seen this. Didn't realise Barnstaple Quay station ever existed!

 

What we have here is some first hand evidence of a pre-preservation train travelling on the L&B. I suppose someone who knew the distance between two landmarks would be able to calculate the speed of the train - if ye olde fashioned film is 1 to 1 realtime ???

No dynocar required, simples!

 

Er, not quite - it's pre-preservation train travelling on the mainline LSWR, with some L&B infrastructure visible.

As for speeds on the L&B proper, the timetable is pretty revealing. Hard to imagine speeds much over 20mph were ever required in practice.

Tom

 

Ahh, ok Tom. I had a comprehension fail of your blurb relating to the video.

 

This might help:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/105998030#zoom=4&lat=8002&lon=13149&layers=BT

The film starts on this map, just about adjacent to where the siding is leading to the "Raleigh Works" (this is Shapland and Petters siding - there is a small ground frame visible to operate the connection). The man waving green flag immediately after was guarding the foot crossing into the works from Sticklepath Terrace. The train then proceeds across the river and onto Castle Quay, where Barnstaple Quay station was, and is flagged by the signalman across the level crossing into Barnstaple Town station.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/105998000#zoom=4&lat=1520&lon=12015&layers=BT

The next map then shows the L&B infrastructure. The train goes through Barnstaple Town station, past the siding that gives access to the L&B exchange siding with its large dock; the L&B starter signal can be seen (interestingly, reading "off" though no train is present, which makes me think this might have been filmed immediately prior to opening); meanwhile the mainline train continues past Pottington Swing Bridge signal box. The film stops roughly where the mainline becomes double track, with a trailing connection into the Rolle's Quay siding.

Tom

 

Wow, thank you for that Tom

The video now has some context for me. I had originally assumed the flag wavers were in loo of the signalling not being 'online' yet, (due to my wrong railway comprehension fail), but your explanation makes it seem this must have been standard operating practice for this section of line at the time!?

 

All very interesting - thanks for comments re: line speed. 28:28 on here was what I was talking about - looks fairly rapid to me (definitely quicker than I'd expect on NG, but suspect it's just a vagiary of old cameras...!





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Checking Nicholas and Reeve:

The foot crossing ("Westcotts crossing") where there is a flagman was staffed with early and late shifts who had a small cabin to sit in between trains. When a train was due to depart from Barnstaple Junction or Town, the signalman there gave a bell signal to the crossing keeper, who then used a lever to lock the wicket gates and, when that was done, flagged the train across the crossing.

The flagman at the Level Crossing on Commercial Road, just before Barnstaple Town station also had warning by bell of when trains were due to pass. The building he is in is the old Barnstaple Town signal box, which was later replaced with a single story gate box. The new signal box, opened in 1898, can just be seen on the platform of Barnstaple Town station (on the other side of the line) as the train arrives.

The single line section was Barnstaple Junction to Pottington Swing Bridge; the latter signalman can be seen at the end of the film ready to collect the token.

Apologies for thread drift!

Tom

 

Lots of talk on here about long term plans, but what about the shorter term - what is the next phase, when is it going to start, and how long is it expected to take?

 

Extension south to Wistlandpound and north to Parracombe

When the planning permission is sorted out and finance is in place.

PP decision is due in the next few months, there is a possibility of appeal(s) from objectors.
2-3 years construction time I seem to recall. I think the plan was to employ contractors as per WHR (but I may have misread that).


Keith