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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Previous discussion on the Yahoo group suggests that although the Barnstaple end will be shorter than the original line, the extended line planned at Lynton and around the reservoir will probably result in a 20 mile line in the end...
     
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  2. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    Can't imagine many would want to walk from Blackmoor. I can see the reservoir being quite a nice destination though :)
     
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  3. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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  4. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    But Blackmoor is the anticipated starting point, so you'd travel less then a mile in one direction, then go back again to head to Woody Bay
     
  5. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate that is the hope, but the viable cards on the table now are for a 4.5ish mile line from Wistlandpound to Woody Bay. Anything more then that is a long way off, if it happens
     
  6. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    No guarantee that is how public will see it though! I volunteer at Embsay & Bolton Abbey . The later has the biggest car park, easiest access and larger cafe, but guess where most people start their journey from???!!! I suspect the short walk to the Abbey (Priory) makes it more of a destination than a starting point :)
     
  7. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    perhaps at the expense of the maintenance or rebuild budgets in the medium term?
     
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  8. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    I suggest you read some recent reports from Peter Miles (L&B Chair) before you cast doubts on the 20 mile railway :)
     
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  9. meeee

    meeee Member

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    The extra mile or so Wistlandpound makes more sense for people travelling from Woody Bay and in the future Lynton. It gives the railway some sort of destination in the medium term that isn't a car park, next to a pub, next to an engine shed. The odd thing about it is the desire to run it as a separate bit of railway with a shuttle from Blackmoor gate when i could be easily covered with one train doing the whole line.

    Tim
     
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  10. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it from Peter Miles the plan is very simple the train would leave Blackmoor and head toward Wistlandpound, where if you wanted to get off you could, the train would then return through Blackmoor without stopping (unless the guard has been asked to do so) and carry on to Woody Bay for a round trip.

    Of course there is no reason why this could not be reverse and the train goes to Woody Bay first and then runs through Blackmoor to Wistlandpound and then stops and returns to Blackmoor.

    It also has to be remembered that the L&BR Trust has committed itself to re-instating all of the railway where it is practical to do so, as has been mention on here and else where in the past, most of the trackbed landowners are watching as to what happens with the ENPA planning permission, so we need to keep them on our side. From what I can recall when I was more active, they may have been one or two landowners who where dead set against the rebuilding of the railway but this is slowly changing to a more positive outlook and working in partnership with them has made things much easier.

    Once the line has been rebuilt from Woody Bay to Wistlandpound, you can expect the section back to Lynton to be undertaken, It would not surprise me to hear that once the Wistlandpound extension is underway the Trust would submit the planning applications for the 'Return to Lynton' extension so it can keep the momentum up for the rebuilding going.

    As for phase three 'Back to Barnstaple' that may take a little while to achieve, but we must not forget that some of the trackbed is already owned by both the Trust and Exmoor Associate's, may be not a lot, but there is a foot hold on this section.

    What I would say is this if anyone wants to visit the trackbed make contact first with the landowner and get permission, you may think oh it will only take me five minutes to get that photo, but think of it like this, if a landowner got twenty people doing that every week and just one was either leave a gate open or spook his animals he is not going to be best pleased with railway enthusiasts.

    One thing I do know and that it the L&BR Trust has a zero tolerance on this, it has been a problem in the past and the warning has appeared in the Trust magazine on more than one occasion. The Trust want you guys to enjoy your visit to the railway, but it also has a responsibility to their neighbours along the trackbed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
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  11. Masterbrew

    Masterbrew New Member

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    http://ngrm-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18049-lb-lyn/page-2 Read post no 38 for hands-on review of Lyd.
     
  12. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    IIt's a magnificent loco, but you'd have quite a job - like most of the Indian NG, Kalka-Simla is 2'6''gauge!
    I don't think Collection X has a Kalka-Simla loco anyway. Their Indian 2-6)2T is ex-Kalighat-Falta Railway (original built for the Egyptian Delta but redirected). It's still 2'6'' gauge, and isn't as handsome as the Simla locos...
     
  13. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    There are very few spare big 2ft gauge locos around, which is why a lot of people have in the past come to the conclusion that the L&BR Manning Wardle's where designs as 2ft 6in gauge machines in the first place.

    So far there has been no proof one way or the other that this was in fact the case, but like so much of the history of the L&BR it is surrounded in myth which is difficult to prove one way or the other.
     
  14. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    There is plenty of evidence that the original Manning Wardle locos were not up to the job.

    The Baldwin loco wasnt any better if not worse (apparently one carriage less).

    Lew (SR) wasnt any better either.

    The Joy outside valve gear was not the culprit of the MW type locos. When working hard up the gradients with long cut off it would have made no difference had the locos had walschaerts s per the 'new' V of R locos or stephensons. Joy gear if properly designed gives excellent valve gear events.

    The problem was elsewhere in the design.

    4 or 5 coaches was the most the original MW locos could pull on the L&BR gradients, depending on the weather and rail head conditions. My Grandma travelled regularly on the L&BR in 1934 and 1935 in the summer months on a daily basis. I dont ever recall her stating any trains were 'packed' or full. Too many charabangs were plying between the terminal destinations.

    Cheers,
    Julian
     
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  15. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Julian, I'm afraid your post is completely self-contradicting....!
    You say the MW "weren't up to the job" and could only pull "4 or 5 coaches" - but also that such trains were not normally full... In which case, 4 or 5 coaches was plenty and the locos were perfectly adequate! They might not have been as powerful as some others (e.g. VoR), but they didn't need to be.
    How many coaches would you expect on a meandering rural branch line with few big settlements around? Or how many seats (comparing NG to SG)?
    Also, as others have posted above, Lyn was rated at one coach more, not one less.
    All this talk of twelve coach trains is rather hyperbolic to be honest. How many of the established NG lines need to do this now? How many SG lines need that many seats?
     
  16. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    What is the reasoning behind this supposition? Why on earth would they be designed as 2'6''?
     
  17. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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  18. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify I'm not against the idea of a 20 mile railway, nor do I think it won't happen. My personal feeling is that talk at this stage of getting stock in for a 20 mile railway damages credibility. Lyn, Isaac and Axe will be more then enough to deliver Wistlandpound to Woody Bay, and the addition of Yeo (if/when) would provide sufficient motive power for any extension towards Lynton. I'm not a poo-pooer or a neighsayer, I'm fully supportive of the L&B and have been since I was about 8, but my personal feeling is that we need credible PR to challenge the idea that this is boys and their toys.

    Am I right in thinking that part of the ENPA application suggest that Blackmoor will ultimately act as a park and ride into Lynton to alleviate traffic on the A39?
     
  19. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    *neighsayer is a tad too equine; methinks 'tis naysayer you mean :)
     
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  20. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Below is the post:

    OK, I’ll give it a go but first a caveat. The following are my opinions and views from conversations with my colleagues at the FR in management, engineering and footplate grades. What I say below may be disagreed with by them and the improvements I suggest, whilst all have been talked about, may or may not happen. Better make that two caveats - second is this does go on a bit!



    Lyd’s 10 year O/H is due in 2020 and how much work gets done to it may depend on other pressures as much as the desire to sort Lyd out.



    Lyd is not liked by a lot of the FR/WHR footplate crews and therefore doesn’t always get the love and care from them that the others might get. A lot of it is down to it being different to the rest of the fleet and therefore a bit of a misfit. I’ll admit that I was in the `don’t like it’ group but I have changed my view lately. When I analysed why it was because it’s a) had a difficult birth with a crap oil firing set up and, initially, a rubbish performance on coal and b ) I only ever got rostered on it for an odd day in amongst driving the rest of the fleet so never got to the point of being comfortable with it. That can be silly things like it’s a PITA to grease but some of it only needs doing, say, every five days but with a different driver on it each day you end up doing it all because you don’t know what the previous bloke did.



    Anyway, here’s my list of things that get crews goat with it: -



    • Ashes out in the two foot and has a low capacity ashpan whilst we don’t have an ash pit. The rest of the fleet ash out to the side and straight into a wheel barrow. We don't have an ash pit!
    • Inaccessible oil pots on the motion – you have to be fluent at braille to oil the motion and thank god, we don’t have the steam heat pipes on it.
    • Uncooperative displacement lubricator that is a bit of a lottery if it’s going under oil or run out
    • You need a pit to oil the pony truck axle boxes or you're flat on your face squirming in the dirt
    • No loco only power brake
    • Coal bunker is on the wrong side for the coaling facilities making it a) laborious and b ) dangerous to coal up
    • It’s a very dirty engine – you can’t stop the dust cloud from the coal


    So here is what has been/might be done about it……..



    • The ashpan is restricted by the rear pony truck traces and the frame stretcher that forms its pivot. There are also issues with the truck and flange wear. There is a proposal that changes the rear truck to a swing link affair as has been done to the Rheidol tanks which would improve the angle the flange meets the rail in curves. A handy knock on from this is that the frame stretcher formerly used as the pivot could go or at least be altered. This would allow a much larger ashpan to drop below the frames and with side extensions it would a) have enormous capacity and b ) empty into the standard wheel barrow.


    • Not sure what you can do about the Braille oil pots. In this picture the yellow arrows point at the two pots on the outside but as shown in the second photo its got the same on the inside and the red arrowed pipe is a) in the way and b ) the vacuum pipe. If it had it fitted the one on the other side would be the steam heat pipe and hot.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    • It still has its displacement lubricator but it also now has a mechanical one hidden under the front apron on the fireman’s side which unless you go looking for it with a view to complaining the average Joe wouldn’t notice it.


    • The picture of the rear truck when all above it hadn’t been built yet has the axlebox oil pot highlighted. Daft thing is they’re underfed axleboxes which means you fill this reservoir and an felixible pipe feeds it into the bottom of the axle box where there is a sprung loaded oil pad pressing against the underside of the axle. Longer flexibles and put the pots on the outside is the answer
    [​IMG]

    • Most FR engines (there are of course ones to prove me wrong) have vacuum brake for the train and a steam brake for the loco. A Vac application proportionally applies the loco brake. Lyd is vac only with no independent power brake on the loco. Pretty much to move it in a controlled manner you have to have 100psi and turn the noisy ejector on. Operating trains the norm is to arrive at an FR station, stop using the train vac, apply the steam brake and let the vac recreate. When you set off you open the regulator and as the train tries to move release the steam brake (think handbrake start in your car). Doing this allows the train brake to be fully released by the time you want to leave. With Lyd you either hold the train on the vac and try to leave against a slowly releasing brake or you do it as a handbrake start which is a bit of a faff. There is supposedly a way to conn the vac to just but the loco brake on. This is an on or off function and not graduable but it’s being looked at.


    • In use on the FR the firemans bunker gets used most and it’s on the opposite side of the loco to the coaling stage. This means you have to coal it by filling buckets, hoying them onto the tank top, lift them to the other side and tip them in. It’s a real PITA in the dark/rain/end of an 11 hour shift. There is a current solution to this in that they’ve turned Lyd round for the winter as its doing the winter trains to Hafod-y-llyn on the WHR but it’s usually an FR engine and wrong way round isn’t good for hill climbing on the FR. The other idea I use when I can, which is when there are no coaches in the 3 road extension is to go round the other side then you can just chuck coal at it with a shovel but you need the signalman’s cooperation for this move. There is talk (and that all it is) of addressing this by making it left hand drive.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    • Filth. Coal Dust. You can wet the coal to the point its running out the bunkers and slurry but you’ll still be in a dust storm of sh!te. Some study of airflow across the bunker tops may resolve or mitigate this.


    Why did my view change?



    Well, I guess this biggest thing was taking Blanche to Woody Bay last year and leaving her there for the following week and bit. When I got back to Wales Blanche’s job was being covered by Lyd and I drove it for the five days before Vintage Weekend and we came to an understanding. This year I got to drive it in several blocks together and then took it to Woody Bay for the L&B Gala.



    Last time I was on it we had it all miked up and recorded for sound decoders so we should have sound decoders not long after the Heljan loco is available (we do need to one ourselves to set the final parameters and determine the best speaker combination)

    [​IMG]



    Edited because publishing decided to change all the b ) to stupid smileys


    [​IMG]

    Paul Martin

    EDM Models

    http://www.ngtrains.com
     

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