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Island Line under threat

Discussion in 'Heritage railways & Centres in the Uk' started by Shaggy, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Usually about three times the starting figure, from what I've seen!
     
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  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    The biggest problem here is that the adjoining brook floods "big time" now and then.

    Paul H
     
  3. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    Dare I suggest 142s? with the spread of electrification in the North West, maybe Northern could spare one or two?
     
  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    my expectation is that NR will say, ok in principle to the works, but can you reduce the costs, and it will be vivarail 230 units because they are availible cheaply ,and will have the modern bits SW will want, such as wheel chair acessible etc, to reduce costs, NR will want to come to a deal with the steam railway to use their engineering wagons and 03/ 05 , in the closed period, that will see the conection between the two lines established and cooperation that works in both railways favour
     
  5. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    What sort of work around does Island line currently employ?
     
  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Last time there was a major flood, the water level in the tunnel rose virtually to the arch soffit. The workshop area flooded. One set of carriages still has green staining caused by the floodwaters but it may well have been out of service before this happened. It certainly is u/s now!

    St. Johns is not an ideal site for this reason.

    Paul H
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    I recall seeing footage of the canal on Ryde Esplanade a couple of years back. I know flooding was a monotonously regular occurence on the Newport - Sandown line and at Freshwater (the clue there I guess being the "water meadow" which the FYN crossed), but has water been an issue at Ryde St.John Rd throughout the railway's history, or has something changed since the IWR first set up shop there?
     
  8. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    There has been a depot at Ryde St Johns since when? so they must have known about the Brook and its chances of flooding, So was the heavy flood a one off? and when the brook overflows is it due to volume of water, or lack of drainage now, in a lot of cases, flooding is down to flood defences not working , if the area was so unsuitable, would the Isle of wight Railway have built a depot on its present site ?
     
  9. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    I have heard it said that this particular incident was affected by issues around the maintenance of the watercourse. However, even if this were so, the situation is evidently not ideal.

    PH
     
  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Don't assume anything. The old IWR was desperately under-capitalised and had to pay for its equipment by instalments which, at times, it could not keep up. Some things never change!

    PH
     
  11. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    Pacers are subject to the 2019 deadline for withdrawal as they are not suitable for passengers with disabilities.
     
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  12. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    One would hardly expect railway routes to remain in reasonable nick without attending to lineside drainage (unless one is a Sustrans zealot of course) and widespread flooding on the Somerset levels a couple of years back was pretty conclusively shown to be a result of someone at DEFRA deciding to save a few bob on dredging.

    If fundemental maintenance is neglected anywhere due to responsibility being handed to idiots, you'd have to expect trouble. It sounds as if St.John's Road falls firmly into this category. Just as well the Dutch don't rely on DEFRA expertise, or a third of that country would be lost to the North Sea by now.
     
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  13. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Come on now Paul, the IWR had to cancel no more than 40% of their initial order for locomotives! :)
     
  14. meeee

    meeee Member

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    There is a media obsession with dredgeing however it would have had little effect in the 2014 floods. All it would do is accelerate water towards The next bottleneck. The root cause is centuries of human activity changing the ability for the ground to store and release water, coupled with higher rainfall due to global warming. So flood management is changing to consider the whole catchment area rather than just the river. Hence less spend on dredgeing and more on rewilding, tree planting and so on. Of course that doesn't make good copy for journalists looking for a cheap story.

    Tim
     
  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    So could the Flooding that PH sayes makes the site so unsuitable, and a problem be put down more to cutting costs and lack of maintenance than any actual problem with the site, could it be another symptom of lack of maintenance by which ever body is meant to ensure water courses are properly maintained and kept clear of obstacles ?.
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Who said anything about it being so unsuitable? It is obvious though that it is not without its problems and has to be watched.

    PH
     
  17. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Active Member

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    Why is everyone worrying about platform raising? Just have several ramps that line up with the doors... You will only get one type of stock after all!
     
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  18. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree with you on holistic approaches to wetland management, if only to hear the phrase "nice beaver" being used in public. Although it's early days, restoration of upland bogs at the head of the River Severn catchment looks to be paying dividends.

    Regarding the efficacy of dredging, going half-way and expecting it to work as well as a thorough and competent job is a notion I'd place on a par with that of a woman being slightly pregnant. Again, I'd point to the Dutch example, where virtually the entire area of the sometime IJselmeer (lying below sea level) is already reclaimed and managed in a way which seems to elude domestic expert opinion in the UK.

    The drive to resume dredging may have been hijacked by the press (not, be it noted until after serious flooding happened!), but most definitely originated within the Somerset levels, having been an expressed concern ever since it was first scaled back. The line that it's "ineffective" is theory flying in the face of long practical experience. Indeed, it's the very technique which has permitted land reclaimation over the past few centuries, the only changes being ones of scale connected with increased mechanisation.

    With the Somerset Levels being sometime salt and brackish marshlands, as close to sea level as makes no odds, the situation isn't directly comparable with the more elevated Severn flood plain at and above Worcester. That said, extending water management techniques across the surrounding uplands is something I'd greatly welcome.
     
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  19. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Not sure, but the suggestion on modern trains is about 3 sets over the life of the train, at very considerable cost.


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  20. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    NR have nothing whatsoever to do with the provision of rolling stock.


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