Is a physical rail connection important?

although I love preserved railways I think of many as lines I never had the chance to travel on in BR days, unless it's stunningly scenic (eg Llangollen) or local (eg Bluebell pre 2013) I don't go out of my way to travel on those without a physical connection as they are often just that, a bit of isolated track,

sadly that includes the GCR as I'm waiting for it to be connected too

I know without patronage isolated preserved lines will remain isolated; chicken and egg I suppose

thoughts please?

 

When you say a "physical connection", what do you mean? Do you mean an actual physical mainline connection where you can step off a mainline train and onto a preserved one, or just one that is connected by public transport in some way? Or do you mean that it just has a physical mainline connection regardless of whether trains run over it or not?

I think to not go out of your way to travel to places that are, as you put it "a bit of isolated track", you are losing out on railways that offer a great experience. Your example of the GCR I would hardly see as being isolated! Since Loughborough Mainline station is around a 20 minute walk (5 minutes or less in a car/taxi) away from Loughborough GCR station, I would class that as pretty not isolated! What about a line such as the East Somerset? It has a mainline connection but is nowhere near within walking distance of a mainline station, although I do believe it is possible to get a bus from Castle Cary or Frome to the nearby main road with an additional short walk to the actual railway.

Is it about travelling on a railway that is still technically "part of the network", or another reason?

 

Seems to me you are being a bit "ultra".

PH

 

Assuming you're not talking about difficulty in reaching the site to begin with, what difference does it make? After all, even for lines that have a Network Rail connection, through passenger movements are very rare.

 

Personally I don't think a mainline connection really matters much at all. Easy access by service train i.e. cross-platform interchange could be advantageous but many railways seem to have managed without in the past and most still do! I can only really see the benefit if regularly running out onto Network rail I.e. NYMR / NNR (soon). Would be interesting to see a breakdown of number of railways with a ML connection (and main purpose for it), and those without...
...and possibly a poll at the start of the thread???

 

I think you have to distinguish passenger amenity from the presence of an actual physical connection. For example, one of the most convenient connections for a passenger is on the IoWSR - just a matter of a few yards up a ramp - even though there is no physical connection. By contrast, the WSR has a physical signalled connection, but any prospective passenger aiming to arrive on a normal service day by public transport is still faced with a journey of about three miles each way by bus or taxi.

The other point though is that the presence of a physical connection - even a remote one - can make it a easier and cheaper to get in materials and plant such as ballast, tampers etc, by rail rather than by road. That use is often not appreciated. As an example, the Bluebell connection at East Grinstead has only been used a handful of times by paying passengers (on charter services) but I suspect the number of uses for non-public services is comfortably into three figures in the short length of time it has been open.

Tom

 

Your approach just does not make sense to me (and I suspect, 99% of others on here.)Take the IOWSR, for example. It is isolated from the rest of the 'system' by water. OK, there is a wee bit of line that is technically part of the big railway but what would your approach be if the big railway bit closed?
Then there's Middleton; technically connected to the big railway with a live connection but nothing has traversed it since 1990. How do you classify that?

 

I personally like to travel to heritage railways by train so a cross platform or walkable connection is a significant benefit to me, but I appreciate that I am in a minority. As said above , depends on the connection. The WSR connection isn't useful for general visitors, but generates significant income through railtours and stone trains. Non passenger trains use the Bluebell and SVR connections on a reasonably regular basis. The value for me depends on whether value can be generated for the railway.

 

I guess the Dartmouth SR has one of the best locations with its Paignton station. It is adjacent to the main line terminal station, has a connection to that line which is used by rail tour trains so I am sure the main line does generate a reasonable amount of trade. A bus station serving most of South Devon is very close by and lastly it is situated in the centre of a busy town.

 

No I didn't expect it to agree with 99% of others on here, it's my point of view. To give it some history, I grew up in 80's BR when loco haulage was very common. Armed with my Baker's atlas and all line timetable I spent many years line and loco bashing. That all stopped when I'd done all the scenic lines on the network and the trains were all replaced by DMUs / EMUs and railtours became silly money; newer stock is all very nice from a travelling POV but of no particualr interest to me. So I started exploring preserved lines, often on railtours (eg WSR/ESR). And with that came in interest in steam.

I still count physically preserved lines (with a station at the NR end) as part of the network and generally only travel on them once unless they have a gala that is of interest to me. I expected this to be anathama to many on here, I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers

 

I wouldn't say you've ruffled any feathers, more slight disbelief. For me some of the best railways don't have connections, like K&ESR. I've never been on the IoWSR using Smallbrook, even been on the MHR using Alton, in fact I think I've only ever left the train at Alton once.

Many enthusiasts make a big deal of mainline connections, especially the Peak Oil Brigade, but for the bread and butter visitors, the ones that actually make the majority of the money, it's really not a big deal.

 

Fair enough; and I admit I'm not the typical bread and butter visitor. But as Jamessquared points out preserved railways don't put physical connections for the benefit of "ultras" (I like that!) like me

 

The SVR mainline connection, like the Bluebell, only sees infrequent through passenger trains. It is however of significant worth in facilitating commercial moves. For instance testing the NR 73s, the cleaning contract for the Northern Belle.It also facilitates loco moves such as FS Tornado and the visiting locos for the diesel gala.

Passenger interchange is important and the SVR benefits from having the NR station adjacent

 

I dislike railways with no connection to the national system. They can play no part in relieving road traffic; indeed they can only trade successfully by encouraging such traffic. Stock moves can be a particular problem with huge low-loaders negotiating country lanes. Where the private and NR tracks abut but do not join I would like to see NR take a more generous view of connection charges. Where there is a gap of some distance I would certainly support the use of grants from Government or Lottery sources to help a connection to be created.

 

I'd agree that the sight of a connection to NR at the end of the heritage line does add a certain extra air of "reality" to the venue. A physical reminder that the line "belongs " to a much larger entity and once had a greater purpose in life than ferrying hordes of holidaymakers back and forth. It's just a "vibe" but since some of the appeal to those who actually take an interest in railways beyond something to keep the kids amused is the "vibe", it isn't to be dismissed out of hand. I realise that financially it makes little sense, but as pointed out above a connection does have uses - and the number of connections that have been completed in the face of great difficulty show that there are many in the preservation movement who feel that "vibe". As to not visiting a non connected railway, that may be taking it a little far, but each to his own.

There are on this site those who feel the only real use of a steam locomotive is an 0 6 0 pulling a couple of small coaches round the outskirts of a theme park, whilst there are others who hanker for a full time commuter service on their line. and everything in between. So you aren't going to please everyone however hard you try.

 

well I'm afraid my main interest in steam is confined to SR / BR standards (definitely not 0 6 0's pulling a couple of Mk1s) and I did noisy old DMU's to death in the 80s so I don't go to every preserved railway there is. There has to be a bit more.

Going back to the WSR; in the 70's the reason it never connected to BR was because the bus operators were NUR members; is this still the case? When I visited on a charter it was very ironic to see dozens of Butlins holidaymakers having to get on a bus at Taunton

 

No

Its because BR would not tolerate 'amateurs' operating on their network. As has been pointed out a WSR train has to traverse the West of England mainline for 3 miles to reach Tanton station and this was unacceptable to those in charge.

The only Heritage railway that successfully operated over BR metals was the South Devon Railway into Totnes mainline station back in the mid 1980s - but this required the SDR to pay for a BR Pioltman and operations were constrained by the need to fit round the BR service. The costs were not worth the extra revenue generated so it only lasted for a couple of seasons.

Today its even harder because a train performing such an operation would require all steel passenger coaches fitted with secondary door locking with the loco being fitted with AWS / TPWS a data logger plus being mainline registered.

Also please remember physical connections between Heritage railways and the national network are not free, each Heritage railway MUST pay a substantial lump sum for NR to retain the facility - regardless of how much it gets used. As such a physical connection may not be in the best interests of the Heritage group.

 

Thanks; I thought that was the case with the WSR; what happened to the idea of a NR platform at NF?

Swanage are finding out the hard way that you can't just run any old heritage trains onto NR, thus for most people the SVR / Bluebell / PDR approach with an "as required" connection but a separate preserved station or at least platform is probably the best solution, although of course not always possible

 

To be fair to the Swanage Railway, I don't think they ever had the idea that they could "just run any old heritage trains onto NR" - they're not daft!

And the SVR/Bluebell/PDR don't have an "as required" connection - it's permanently connected and still has to be paid for!


Keith