Industrial Loco Updates

Does anyone on the Forum know the build details of (Peckett?) 0-4-0 saddle tank locomotive 'Upper Boat', formally of Bird's railway scrapyard in Pontymister, (near Newport), in South Wales? I believe that this loco was formally a Partridge, Jones and John Paton engine, at their Steelworks (which eventually became the scrapyard) at Pontymister. This loco was one of several employed at this site, which were eventually replaced by Diesels. (If anyone can help with identifying ANY of these locos, I would be seriously grateful.) Cheers, Tony.

 

I can help with one of the Partridge Jones locos, as it's Avonside 1563!

Built 1908 and new to John Paton, rebuilt by Adams in the mid 30's (will check date on rebuild plate when I get home) and sold on to Millom Haematite mine in Cumbria. Preserved in 1969 and currently in a lot of bits at the Foxfield Railway!

 

But to be honest it's better than the maroon livery it was carrying.

 

Is it? In your eyes maybe, but I think we must agree to differ - now it's just another BR black loco. In maroon it was an industrial Austerity. I know some will say it's only a coat of paint, but are we really deceiving the public when this happens? (puts stirring spoon away and runs for cover).

 

How about we agree it would more than likely look better in it's industrial livery instead or at least one of the many good industrial liveries that it could wear.

 

Ok then, sounds a fair compromise to me! :smt023

 

I really can't see the point in disguising Austerity tanks as J94s. They look awful in BR black, they don't fool enthusiasts, the general public don't care what colour the engine which pulls their train is so long as it's steam, the liveries which these engines carried in industrial, military or overseas service are in many cases more attractive and in all cases more interesting than BR or LNER black, and there are in any case two genuine J94s in preservation. Not only is it a rather pointless con, but it also suggests a lack of respect for a locomotive's history which would never be countenanced with a mainline engine. Nobody is likely to paint an A4 in NCB North East Area blue, for example, or a Duchess in WD khaki.

Mind you, none of the foregoing should be allowed to detract from the fact that he who pays the piper calls the tune.

 

Hmmm. The possibilities. Maybe painting an LMS red loco in NCB livery would look good!! Certinaly some of the ncb liveries are very similar to LMS...

What about 5690 - Leander altered to NCB instead of LMS and then S.690

!!

(couldn't resist)

 

Or perhaps some people are just trying to fool themselves? I really am at a loss with all this BR-isation, some of these engines have really interesting histories, and they help to show the wider role that steam played in Britain. Even with Trojan at Didcot, it's easy to forget that it started out life as an industrial, and didn't just end up as one. Mind you, recreating that could be hard - I don't suppose there's too much information on the 1890's livery policy of Messrs Dunn & Shute of Newport!

 

Whilst I would defend the basic principal of the owners painting a loco in what ever colour they would like I think it’s a great shame that the VoG have painted Pamela as yet another pseudo J94.

The engines history is entirely as a South Wales NCB loco and it must have shifted millions of tons of coal in its life. Considering that the Welsh are normally very proud of their history it seems an odd thing to do. The engine is named after the daughter of the Maesteg Unit Engineer Billy Cleaver who was also in the national Welsh Rugby team. Pamela renamed the engine when it was first restored.

The Maesteg engines have had a poor innings in preservation.

Norma hasn’t worked for many years and is in need of a major restoration.
Linda was made into a Thomas
Maureen is now a rather odd looking tender loco
WB2766 hasn’t run in preservation but is being converted into a BR J94 at Bodmin

I went to see the engine at a gala at Llangollen in Feb 2005 and it was in a poor state. It has a non-standard regulator which is rather low set and only allows the engine to be driven from the right hand side. The standard austerity regulator is great, allowing you to drive from either side of the cab and look out at the same time.

 

What about if an industrial loco is put in to the colours of an industry it never worked in?? Say an NCB loco type that also worked in the iron stone industry?? :-k
Even if similar locos operated in oth industries would this be the same as painting it BR............whatever?? #-o

 

I presume you are refering to the austerity at Scunthorpe which is going into the USC (United Steel Company) Ore Mining Branch livery.

By the way that particular loco has always been assumed to be HE3846. The numbers on the cylinders and some other parts are HE3844. After some research it seems that the plates for HE3846 which was the number allocated to the NCB in South Wales for a loco they ordered were put onto HE3844 as this was the most complete and the NCB needed the engine urgently. It was duly despatched with the false identity.

 

The current trend of painting everything in BR black is getting boring but it is fun sometimes to see locos in non-authentic liveries - I loved the period at the L&HR when the Fairburn tanks appeared in Caledonian blue and LNWR black respectively - I presume the management at the time were not fans of the authentic BR black - they even painted a 'Black 5' green. I also liked the early period at the K&ESR where almost everything, including Terriers USA tanks and Maunsell carriages, was turned out in K&ESR liveries in an attempt to continue the independent tradition of the original company.

A compromise ought to be possible - locos tend to be repainted at least once during a 10 year cycle so it would be good if owners could perhaps consider running their stock at least 50% of the time in historically authentic liveries and then go mad, if that is their wish, at the next re-paint.

My own flight of fancy, if I ever get to own one, will be a 9F in BR blue with large double arrow logo on the tender and yellow ends, but only for a while.

 

Surely though ultimately isnt it the choice of the loco owners what colour they turn their locomotives out in?

 

http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p26133965.html

Something like this?

 

Quite right Matthew, but it would be nice to think that they had some understanding of heritage and the loco's history. As Anthony said earlier, it's starting to be like the traction engine world where people will take a perfectly good and historical roller and chop it into a very poor representation of a showmans, presumably in the hope that this will give them some kudos, or even more mercenary to make money out of it! (not that I'm averse to making money, just not by fooling unsuspecting people) Joe Public doesn't really care what colour the loco is as long as it's reasonably clean and goes chuff in the right places, and most industrial liveries are far more attractive than BR black [-(

 

Dont disagree with that statement Nigel at all and i agree that alot of industrial liverys are very nice.

I personally also agree that something should not pretend to be something its not,

However there are some owners who would rather paint it in non authentic liverys and butcher them into something they are not.

I thinks its just a case of we have to accept that owners will continue to do this as its their choice.

I always wanted to see 4388 in its lined works Grey as it would have come out of Caledonia works :smt077

 

Nice thought Matthew, but it would just be nice to see the loco running again! It was a lovely little tool and bags of power for it's size! =D>

Now then, where's my bank manager's number #-o

 

Me first Nigel, after ive mortgaged the Mrs lol

 

Exactly. love the numbers on the smoke deflector!
Cheers