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How to tell BR Coaches apart

Discussion in 'Carriage & Wagon M.I.C.' started by SilentHunter86, Jun 18, 2015.

  1. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    Mark 1
    • Flat ends
    • Doors at end and middle
    • All doors open to the left from the outside
    • "C1" may be present on the ends
    Mark 2 (early)
    • Rounded ends
    • Doors at end and middle
    Mark 2 (late)
    • Rounded ends
    • No middle doors
    Mark 3
    • Rounded ends
    • Doors at each end outwards i.e. towards the end of the carriage; handles on doors only
    • "C3" present on the end
    • Very unlikely to be found on a heritage line
    Mark 4
    • Slanting roofs
    • Automatic doors
    • Extremely unlikely to be found on a heritage line
     
  2. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

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    XP64??

    (The only time I travelled on one the seats were appalling!)
     
  3. mattspencer

    mattspencer Well-Known Member

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    They were mark 1s.
     
  4. Seraphim

    Seraphim New Member

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    Let's expand this a little?

    Mk1 - Commonwealth, BR1, B4, B5 bogies. Vac, Air or dual braked. Batteries, belt driven dynamo.

    Mk2 - Key visible difference is opening toplights - Mk2a/b/c sealed - Mk2 d/e/f. MK2 d/e/f have motor alternator sets. D/E/F all air only. Not sure if any of the a/b/c s were vac braked. Generally block braked, a few were disc braked (eg some of the Mk2 DBSOs).

    The curious thing about the Mk2 build is that no catering vehicles were built.

    C1 = a 20metre coach, C3 = 23 metre. No idea what C2 was (21 1/2 metre long??)

    Mk3 - 23 metres long (previous builds 20metres). HST trailer structurally similar, but electrically totally different. BT10 bogies, disc braked. Mk7 (Mk3a) or Mk12 (Mk3b) motor alternator. Caterers have two Mk12 MAs. BT10 bogies (12140 had various oddities fitted before being put out of its misery). Actually quite a few preserved, mainly the sleepers. A few other now finding their way into preservation.

    Mk4 - 23 metres. Built for 140mph and tilt, neither ever actually happened.
     
  5. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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  6. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Don't forget the 3 now based at the GCRN for use with 41001.
     
  7. savagethegoat

    savagethegoat New Member

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    surely flat sides on Mk1s and curved sides on Mk2/3 should get a look in,

    XP64 can be regarded as a mk1 I suppose but proabably could be described as a prototype Mk2 with Mk1 style flat sides.
     
  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Where does the narrow bodied Hastings stock fit into all this?
     
  9. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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  10. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    It doesn't! I've never heard the Hastings units described as being like any of the BR standard lhcs types in the way that the SR EMUs of the same era were clearly mk1 derived.
     
  11. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Mk Is were not flat sided.
     
  12. savagethegoat

    savagethegoat New Member

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    Flatter then...
     
  13. Seraphim

    Seraphim New Member

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    Arguably the key differentiator between Mk1 and later types were that Mk1 used traditional coach body-on-underframe construction, whereas the later builds are integral construction. Put another way, the strength of a Mk1 is largely in the underframe, and the body is about as crashworthy as a paper bag. Hence various restrictions which have come and gone on mainline usage. Therefore, one could argue that things like Hastings cars and the like are MK1s. Mk2 and Mk3 do not have separate underframes - everything above the bogies is essentially a steel tube. Not sure how XP64 was built, but that should guide whether they are classed as Mk1 or Mk2.
     
  14. b.oldford

    b.oldford Member

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    How flat? A circular curve of approximately 28ft radius. (I know 'cos I recently made a jig and used it to machine up some new timber door jambs).
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2015
  15. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    For the running that's been got out of them I think the Early BR Stock has been a great boon, and a curse, without them being so good many heritage lines would have struggled to put a train together, but without them there may also have been a lot more grouping and even pre grouping stuff rescued and restored. I like both Mark 1's and 2's though, the MK2 is the better looking it looks slightly odd with a Steamer on the front ( with the exception of BR Standards)and the two kinds look odd if mixed.
     
  16. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    Although of course it's actually mandatory to have a MK2 at the front of a rail tour these days.
     
  17. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Active Member

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    What? Hardly any run now with Mk2s let alone at the front.
     
  18. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Active Member

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    XP64 vehicles were not Mk1 or Mk2, they were their own classification technically. Prototype Mk2's if anything, just like 3083 on the SVR isn't regarded a Mk1.
     
  19. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    The WCRC railtour that had the SPAD at Wooton Bassett had a Mark 2 support coach according to the offiical report.
     
  20. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Active Member

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    Yes that's because 34067's support is a Mk2. Take 5043 for example a Mk1 BSK and a GUV lead the set generally albeit most the Vintage Train set is Mk2s. 60163 when she does the Torbay express next week will have no Mk2s in the rake.
     

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