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Hatton's announce SECR P Class and Barclay 14" 0-4-0ST

Discussion in 'Model Railways' started by Rosedale, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    More variants than the number built! :) (And still no room for 323 in SE&CR Lake - that would be a head scratcher for the rivet counters at model railway exhibitions...)

    Tom
     
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  3. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

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    Tom .... what was SECR Lake?
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    The SECR red carriage livery (as applied to the Bluebell's four-wheeled SECR carriages, e.g. http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/lcdr/51.html).

    There was an option tried in which 323, aka Bluebell, was given lake livery upon completion in April 1910. 323 was paired with a two coach motor set also in lake livery; at the same time 325 (painted normally, i.e. green) was paired with a birdcage trio set in Brunswick green. The livery variation on either locomotive or carriages didn't please the directors and 323 (and the Brunswick carriages) were repainted in conventional livery before being released to traffic in July 1910. It's probable that the loco never left the confines of Ashford Works while painted red.

    AFAIK, it would have been pretty similar to the green livery in ornamentation and panelling, except in shades of red rather than green (or blue, as it now is!)

    Tom
     
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  5. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

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    Never knew that. Thanks Tom.
     
  6. DisusedBranch

    DisusedBranch Active Member

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    I've always really liked the blue interpretation of SECR green. Damn Hattons, I'm going to have to get one of each to set each other off.

    Oh no - wait - my KESR connections mean Pride of Sussex is also a must... aaaaaargh!
     
  7. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

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    In 12"/ft which is the better P or Terrier? Both seem quite impressive machines for their size
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    It's a difficult question to answer (though clearly the answer is the Wainwright one. Oops...)

    Set against their contemporaries, a Rooter in the 1870s was leagues ahead of of what else was around before, whereas the P was far from revolutionary ca. 1910.

    In haulage, the Rooter has a bit of an edge. As an example, the load limit for a P class on the Bluebell is 70 tons and generally 80 tons for for a Rooter. (Other railways are available...)

    Now the case for the defence: In absolute terms, and as a locomotive of its time, the Rooter is superior. But as an locomotive to work on, day-in, day-out, the P class wins. Preparation (for the fireman) is far easier, as it has a large firehole door - you can do a proper firebox inspection just by looking inside. On a Rooter, where there is no baffle plate and the door opens into the firebox, you really need to take the firehole door off completely to see inside - a bit of a faff. The larger firehole door makes it easier to throw out an old fire and clean the grate on a P.

    Once in steam, the injectors on a P are slow but reliable, which makes it easy to steam against the injector. The injectors on a Rooter are very fast, so you are endlessly putting them on and off as they tend to flood the boiler, fill it up very quickly but kill the pressure. Plus, putting on the injectors frequently wastes a gallon or two of water every time you do unless you have very good technique: significant when you only have 500 gallons too start with if you waste 2 gallons every time and put the injectors on and off 25 times every trip. A P is very responsive to damper and door position when firing, making it quite easy to control the steaming rate. And it has a steam reverser, which is not only easy to use, but frees up space in the cab - my view is that a P class cab is more comfortable, in particular being taller. On a Rooter, there is lever reverse that is unbalanced, so moves incredibly fast towards forward gear, but is heavy to move towards back. You pretty much have to shut off to move the reverser, whereas a P can be adjusted while under way. Shunting is less tiring on a P.

    In my view: if you want to know which was the truly revolutionary and significant loco, it was the Rooter. If you want a loco to shift a load, a Rooter edges it. But if you want a well-designed bit of kit to work on day in, day out, a P wins hands down.

    I'm sure others will have their views.

    Tom
     
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  9. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

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    Thank you
     
  10. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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  11. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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  12. Rumpole

    Rumpole Well-Known Member

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    Looking forward to the Barclays, got a couple on pre-order; might have to learn how to weather stock though to tone down the wasp stripes a bit...!
     

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