GWR ATC

Does any loco preserved have a full operating set of equipment?

Does any Preserved railway have an operational set up available on their track?

If not, wouldnt this be a good item to include to demonstrate this important aspect of signalling? One for Didcot maybe, possibly in model form.

 

I am not aware of any locos/track installations where this is still in working order.

Many GW locos still have the box/bell in the cab though (almost all SVR locos do) but most if not all have had the shoe removed.
Cabs with this missing look "bare" and some restoration groups may still be looking for tha cab box/bell.
A few ramps are still known to exist in dissmantled form.

The following factors need to be considered if reinstatement was contemplated on a working railway:
1. Quite a lot of installation work would be required on each loco - remembering that on an ex Barry loco only the conduit probably remained.
2. If put into working order a maintenance regime would be necessary for testing/overhaul - remember this is a safety system which has to work properly if it is to be used at all.
3. Batteries on the loco become necessary with all the hassle those bring.
4. Almost all ex GW heritage lines are single track which introduces a basic complication.
5. If the system was reinstalled the only people to actually see it in use would be driver/fireman/other footplate passenger! (apart from the obvious presence of the ramps.
6. Hard pressed MPDs don't have the time to put into non essential items such as this when the rest of the workload is considered.
7. Ditto for S & T depts.

Having said all that there would be considerable merit in a museum style working installation of this an it has previously been suggested that Kidderminster Railway Museum would be a good location for this - with some components already collected - those suggesting that this is a good idea should prove their commitment by volunteering to take the project on!!!

Some mainline registered locos currently use part of the GW system (the cab box & perhaps the bell) as a working part of the AWS/TPWS.

 

the difficulties are why I suggested a demonstration of it in model form, perhaps with full size cab appartus suitably displayed and activated by a model?

 

There used to be just such a model which I last saw at a BREL open day at Swindon Works in the early '80s - perhaps this went to York on works closure?

 

that may have been the one from reading Signal Works perhaps.I never saw it but im tokld there was quite an extensive model instructional layout there..

 

Didcot has a ramp fitted (fixed distant signal so "dead") on the main demonstration line. One or two loco's even have the shoe assembly fitted but I believe the shoe itself not attached, as well as the bell and battery box wired. Rigging up a demo version would be OK as far as the wiring goes, but would need something else to deal with the lack of vacuum for the horn.

As a side note, Didcot also has working AWS and TPWS on the demo line, for testing railtour loco's (if we ever get one finished!!).

 

On the 38 at least, it would be relatively straightforward to reconnect the ATC unit back up to the train pipe - so you could have the horn blaring away to your heart's content! I think quite a few engines still have the shoe attached, and the 72 still has the plunger, not sure how many others have, obviously the recent mainliners won't.

I don't think it would be that hard to rig the system up at Didcot so that it worked; you'd need to put some spacers under the ramp to raise it up, then maybe rig it up to a car battery or similar (what voltage did the ramps use?), on a timer so that the ramp changes from live to dead throughout the day. Alright a bell would conflict with the signals, but I think a siren going off every 5 minutes would drive you mad! With a bit of planning it could probably be done in a day, and changed back just as quick.

Could be; there's one in the Great Hall, never seen it working though.

The question is, does anyone have an answer to life's great mystery #556298, ie why do some ATC units have a yellow band on them? :? ;-)

 

to stop you parking on them? or is that Traffic Wardens hats?

Rather than a system rigged up on the demo line where noone could see it, Id prefer to see a working set-up mocked up to explain it to Joe Public..whether at DID or the NRM i dont mind

 

Yes the NRM's ATC & AWS demonstration rig is in full working order. I saw it in operation with a very enthusiastic ex-driver explaining to the crowd how it worked and how they transformed railway safety.

Basically, it is a length of track in the great hall with two bogies that are hauled in turn over the ramps.
ATC is demonstrated with an ex-class 52 bogie and AWS with an unidentified Type 2 four wheeled bogie.

 

I'd hardly say that no-one could see it, considering that the whole setup would be less than 5 yards in front of you, and be going off every 5 or 10 mins. How many other places could do this? There's not really that much to see anyway... which is why it's an 'audible' system.

The NRM setup is very good, but as far as Didcot's concerned I can't see anywhere where you could put something like that, bearing in mind that ideally it needs to be indoors. Didcot would be the ideal place to show it working in 'real life', but the flip side is that you couldn't have a permanent setup, and even if you could, I don't think it would be very good for crew sanity levels! :smt119 (They're bad enough as it is!)

 

What ya saying, what ya saying??? There's nothing wrong with Didcot crews... twitch twitch,... jibber jibber,... dribble.

 

I'd hardly say that no-one could see it, considering that the whole setup would be less than 5 yards in front of you, and be going off every 5 or 10 mins. How many other places could do this? There's not really that much to see anyway... which is why it's an 'audible' system.

The NRM setup is very good, but as far as Didcot's concerned I can't see anywhere where you could put something like that, bearing in mind that ideally it needs to be indoors. Didcot would be the ideal place to show it working in 'real life', but the flip side is that you couldn't have a permanent setup, and even if you could, I don't think it would be very good for crew sanity levels! :smt119 (They're bad enough as it is!)[/quote:cwo594rq]


you cant see the CAB installation which is a fairly important aspect of it..

 

You can if you go in the shed! ;-)

Maybe we could have a camera mounted in the cab, monitoring it, with a live feed to a screen next to the ramp. Thus giving everyone the opportunity to both see, and hear, a bell ring.

Or perhaps we could just add a picture to the display board (if there isn't already one on there.)

 

The 38 is wired up, just needs the vacuum connecting. The 72 will have it working I hope. Also of note is that at least one of the auto coaches has it connected, but the valve iin side the box is held shut, at one point this came loose and caused a confussed look from a gaurd who did not now why there was a siren going off.

If Didcot did raise the ramp to the correct height it would be good, but there is an isue with the cranes going over it I believe. Personally I think it would be good to do though, the public would be able to hear it when stood by the track.

In response to some of them having a yellow line, I think that is to do with being able to go on the electrified LT lines. If you look on 6101 (come next weekend when the bar is open) there is an isolating valve and I think an indicator to show the the shoe is locked up out of use. I am not shire how this part of it worked though. Will try and find out because it is things like this that I find more interesting that what was on the 6.64 from Evesham on the 6th May 1934.

Baldric

 

Not really sure what the point would be, as the only people who would actually notice would be the footplate crew.

 

When we were testing AWS on 8 road at Didcot you could clearly hear the bell from the track side but not the horn.
Checking back through my apprentice notes when I used to test the ATC at Old Oak, the ramp voltage when energised was 16 volts and the on board for the ATC was only 4 volts. It must have been right at the end of ATC, as many diesels were fitted with dual ATC and AWS, but it was not long after I started I remember the Ramp in the through road between platform 4 & 5 at Reading being removed. I also remember the special crow bar with hooks that was used to lift the shoe against the springs. That was the job the apprentice always got while the fitter did the cab bit!!

 

Interesting stuff!

Yeah, you know I'm not sure if the line is to do with the LT mod, although it does spring to mind. The one on the 61 has an indicator like you say, but no stripe, while the boxes I've seen with a yellow stripe don't have the indicator. It could be though that the striped cases had already been setup for the LT, and just needed plumbing in/the door changing.

Someone once suggested that it might be for bi-directional working, but I think Fairford was the only place with bi-directional ATC, so I wouldn't have thought there would've been many boxes set up for this. The only other ideas I have, is that it might either have had something to do with reconditioning, ie where & how, or maybe even that they were set up for giving double yellow warnings (it's a yellow stripe after all), but after the initial tests in 1947, I'm not aware of GW four-aspect colour lights being developed any further. Unless someone knows better?

Come to think of it, maybe a certain cheerful ex-employee of Reading signal works might have an idea. :lol:

Anyway, I should be down at the weekend... on an ATC-less engine.

 

As a museum part of what we do should be to keep knowledge and items like these avaialble for the future generations. It is not all about the big obvious things or making life easy for todays crews.

Baldric

 

Roughly what year was that please?
I remember reading in one of the mags, in about 1971/72, about the last ATC ramps being removed at Stratford-on-Avon.

 

I think the ATC set on the Railcar may work, as it come out of works at Swindon, and was withdrawn on the sme day, and as far as we know it is still plumbed in. We did chat about getting it working several years ago.