Generator Vans

I've noticed what appear to be generator compartments in the brake or support coaches on a couple of tours recently (Chester Yuletide and Torbay Express). What are these for - train heating? How many are there (at least two)? What's the output (Volts/kW) and how much fuel do they consume on a trip?

 

There have been a few support coaches so fitted but the generators generally arent capable of supplying train heat. (im not aware of any that do)

Usually they are for recharging the support coaches batteries and loco batteries in remote locations (i.e. where no landline is available), supplying power tools etc.

Generally though they are not allowed to be used on the move as many of them have no fire suppression system fitted as required by the national network.

Lizzies support coach certainly has one D1963 was the man who fitted it way back in the day when the coach was the "Waterman railways" support coach, but i dont think it was ever completed because of the need to fit fire suppression systems, the accociated designs and tests and certification costs proving a cost too far.

Mr Riley certainly carries a portable genny in the support coach.

6233's support coach has an underfloor generator.

There have been a number of dedicated generator vans made/converted. WCRC, Riviera, VSOE and EWS have a few between them and these genertors are usually mounted inside the vehicles and have a much larger output as well as all the associated fire supression systems.

These are mostly used for supplying hotel services on train without the need for and ETS loco.

I did hear talk of the 6024 mob maybe mounting an ETH gen set inbetween the 2 water tanks on their water carrier. Dont know if it was pursued beyond the discussion stage though.

 

There are several coaches which have been equipped with diesel powered electric train heating generators. These are owned variously by Riviera Trains, West Coast Railway Company, VSOE, EWS and Network Rail, and maybe others too.

Some examples
17105 (ex Mk2 BFO 2905 for Royal Train, now Blue) Riviera
35469 (ex Mk1 BSK 35469, Maroon) Riviera

6260 (92116) Network Rail
6261 (92988) Network Rail
6262 (92928) Network Rail
6263 (92961) Network Rail
6264 (92923) Network Rail

6310 (81448) (ex Mk1 BG, Chocolate & cream) Riviera
6311 (92911) (EWS maroon) EWS
6312 (92925) (Maroon) West Coast
6313 (92167) (ex MK1 BG Umber & cream) VSOE
6320 ( 5033) Riviera

I think the 63xx (and possibly the 62xx) vehicles are all converted Mk1 BG Full Brakes. Ownership of these vehicle may have changed since this data was originally assembled. 17105 was used on the recent Yuletide Torbay Express services. I have no info on power/ETH index etc, but I think some of these coaches have quite powerful Paxman engines.

David

 

Thanks - so quite a few about. The one on the back of the Chester Yuletide certainly made a din as it went past me - not exactly your typical Honda 500w jobby. It's these big jobs that interest me - typically they seem to have 2 or 3 full height louvre panels on the coach sides.

 

Interesting to read that WCRC have a generator van /coach. I have never seen such a vehicle in use on a WCRC operated Steam Special and I would be interested to know why. When steam heat cannot be provided WCRC always seem to put a diesel on the back whereas EWS do tend to use generator vehicles which if given a choice must be preferable for several reasons, less weight to begin with. It would however be good to see WCRC overhauling the steam heating on their maroon coaches, generally it seems ok on the Green Train, as there is nothing to beat the cosy warmth of a steam heated train. Also anything which obviates the need for diesel on the back, in my book, has to be applauded.

 

The green train is mk11 vehicles rather than antiquated mk1 vehicles.

With mk11's, the steam is passed through a heat exchanger and blown as hot air into the vehicle, much more reliable and a 'drier' heat than the condensation etc with the other systems.

Our support coaches are testamount to that!

 

Maybe it's currently knackered or something, on Riveira sets that required a genny van this year i can only recall seeing the ex Royal Train vehicle.

Come to think of it, of all those genny vans i can't have seen more than 2 or maybe 3 on charters ever, what do Network Rail use genny vans for anyway ?.

 

Probably just easier that way... EWS have a huge loco fleet spread over many depots, but WCR have a smaller fleet based at specific sites...

 

WCRC have a couple now and i believe they are semi permanently in use with the Royal Scotsman set and the Queen of Scots set.

You have to remember EWS have a large pool of locomotives but not many with ETH. Few 90's, 92's, couple of 37's and the 67's.

The 90's, 92's and the 67's are certainly not go anywhere machines (if any one has seen the axle loadings of a 67 they will know what im on about!!!!!!!) and the 37's have a very low ETH index but are go anywhere machines. (this is why they usually run round paired up on charters one supplying ETH only and the other working the train, as one doing both would most likely overheat and shut down).

WCRC have a few "heat" 47's but no heat 37's so genny vans are a good idea. however the other advantage that WCRC have as Ian suggests, is that alot of their rakes are steam heat fitted thereby negating the need for ETS. however if your planning to have a buffet/kitchen car in the set a genny van is needed, batteries and the alternators are not enough on there own to power the dinning facilities.

The other thing is a genny van cannot supply the helpful shove, should it ever be needed which alot of you dont want it to do, but in the case of the modern railway and to help steam continue on the mainline its prudent to take along an "insurance policy" against failure and causing delays. (also makes for faster turn rounds at each end with the diesel shunting whilst the steam is being serviced)

Network rail generator vans are usually used for supplying power on the test trains as some of the network rail engines (class 31's and hired DRS 37's) dont have ETS. Some of the test trains have funny voltages/electrical loadings that cant be powered by a normal engine, so they have bespoke power requirements. I think (cant remember) the New Measurment Train, the HST based thingy even has a genny van for some of the equipment as the electrical systems were just never designed to supply the power the train requires.

Sorry for waffling hope it at least provides some of the whats and whys.

 

* Duplicate post * ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

 

Hey Matthew - thanks for all the gen on the gennies - never realised there were so many, or so many reasons for having one for that matter. Do you know what the voltage/output is for those such as WCTC use?

Iain

 

Sorry Sheff, i dont have a clue.

As i have mentioned before they can vary depending on what is required of them. i.e. how many kitchen cars you want to plug in, does the rake have air con etc.

One set of Genny vans i ommitted is the ex EPS genny vans converted from MK3 SLEP's that were constructed for the ill fated Nightstar concept for the channel tunnel. As i recall these coaches had 2 big genny sets (no idea of the rating) obviously they were never used. Quite a few of these were constructed at least 4 or 5. As far as im aware they are still in existance although i have no idea who owns them or what kind of state they are in. I believe they didnt get snapped up because they are of different voltages to standard ETS.

EDIT: found them!!! pictures from 2007

http://thechief.fotopic.net/p46592084.html
http://thechief.fotopic.net/p46591566.html

Currently sat in Wembley yard in 2008.

 

The Royal Scotsman train has its own diesel power supplies. Each of its Mk3 staff coaches (modified sleepers) has a generator that supplies all heating and auxillaires. Only one is required at a time, the other is a spare. I expect they rotate their useage.

The main problem with the ETH of 37/4s is that the HT cables are lower rating than others. So even if the owners wanted to upgrade the output from the Auxillary alternator, something not too difficult, there would be great expense to replace the HT cables.

The Green Train Mk2s are dual heated, but the ETH function has not been used very often becuase the RMB that usually goes along is steam heat only.

However, it really isn't difficult to through-wire a mk1!

 

edit

 

Those MkIII ones built for nightstar could probably power a small town...

 

Maybe if you got the wiring right then a 90 could be a go anywhere machine

 

The answer to all heritage electric owners! Les Ross on the SVR!

 

This was sighted last night at Bury Bolton Street Station on the ECS for today's East Lancashire Ambassador charter (Rawtenstall - Edinburgh) repainted in Crimson & Cream. The paintwork looks as if it has been done quite recently.

 

That sounds like the Generator Van that was on the Great Eastern Western at Norwich on 20/12.It looked straight out of the paint shop in crimson and cream. Colin

 

Probably repainted for use on the Royal Scot set. Might have to model one of these for my OO gauge version then :-k

Regards,

Dan