GCR Diesel Gala - 25/26 April 2009

The GCR website provides this news =D>

Diesel Gala - Saturday 25 April 2009 to Sunday 26 April 2009

A great line up of heritage traction, featuring the home diesel fleet in action.

We're welcoming special guest class 47, 714 to the GCR for a six month stay. The engine is expected to work passenger trains at this event subject to the completion of some outstanding repairs. Please check availability before travelling to the railway if you are specifically looking to get some miles in behind this engine.

Other motive power is expected to include D5401 (newly resident at the GCR), visiting class 37 314, D1705, D5830, D123, D6535 and D5185 plus the 101 DMU.

Special features:

Passenger hauled services by 47714 on its first visit to the Great Central Railway!

Intensive timetable over two days featuring non-stop runs and a real ale evening beer train on Saturday evening, top and tailed with D5830 and 37314

Special Sulzer powered triple-headed service on Sunday afternoon, featuring D5185, D5401 and D6535

8 Locomotives plus a DMU in action on both days.

Timetables and fare information will follow shortly.

Cheers

 

Update with fares and roster here:

http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/Events.aspx?ID=185

 

Apologies if this has been asked before, but why does the GCR normally publish the diesel gala loco rosters on their website (therefore available for free), whilst only making this info available at steam galas via a gala program which has to be paid for?

 

Because diesesl people won't go without a roster, steam people don't seem to mind. The GCR isn't the only railway that does this.

James

 

A lot of those visiting steam galas do mind. How many posts have you seen on this site from people trying to find out (in advance) when specific locos are running, before deciding whether to visit or on which day?

I also see that the price of a day rover is £2.00 less than it was for the Winter steam gala. That's presumably because there isn't a "free" gala program included in the price?

 

Indeed you have a valid point. However, in my experience steam fans are not half as 'fussy' as some of these diesel bods. I remember one such example when the class 25 booked to haul one of my trains failed and was replaced with a class 37. I have never seen so many die-hard sulzer fans jump off a train so quickly in my life as they could not bear to move anywhere behind an english electric loco...i found it quite amusing to be honest. Somehow i doubt you'd have quite the same reaction if lets say a Hall failed and was replaced with a B1.

In regards to your point about ticket prices we don't normally provide a guide at the diesel galas, 'free' or otherwise. We also don't tend to have the expense of bringing in visiting locomotives. Although we do have a visitor for this gala I am led to believe it was provided at no cost to ourselves (apart from the fuel obviously). We also don't run demonstration freights or TPOs at diesel galas so the spectacle is somewhat less impressive for the visitor in an effort to maximise haulage opportunities for the diesel enthusiasts. I would say the slightly cheaper price of a day rover at a diesel gala reflects the difference in the show that we are putting on for our visitors.

Phil

GCR Traffic Department

 

You've given a very good argument as to why it is necessary to provide the info for diesel galas. So why not provide it for steam galas as well, i.e. why treat the two differently?

Surely, riding the trains is a part of the overall gala experience? The GCR, as you have said, puts on a different show for diesel fans because that is what they want. There is more opportunity to ride the trains because that is what they want. How impressive the show is should therefore be viewed from the point of view of the customer it has been put on for, not simply comparing it to the expectations of a steam gala. Indeed, it could be argued that the cost of a rover ticket for a diesel gala should be higher because there is more opportunity to ride the trains (which is what a rover ticket enables you to do which you can't do otherwise) than at a steam gala.

Regarding guest locos, I have "lurked" on the GCR Yahoo group for several years, and have seen numerous discussions on there about visiting locos at diesel galas. When anyone asks, the usual "put down" is that a visiting loco cannot be afforded unless someone is prepared to put their hand in their pocket and pay for it. I therefore find it strange that you have stated that the lack of a visiting loco is part of the reason that ticket prices can be cheaper than at steam galas. If they were kept the same, perhaps a visiting loco could be afforded more often?

 

I wasn't defending it, I agree with you. As an attendee at both gala's it frustrates me that the roster is not available for steam galas (not just at the GCR), what I meant was that nobody seemds too bothered at steam galas. You only have to look at the preserved diesels or WNXX forums to see how strongly people feel about the rosters - or lack of.

 

Why treat them differently? Well because steam fans generally won't object to paying for the information whereas diesel fans are much more likely just not to turn up. The steam galas are getting more and more popular so there's no obvious issue with people objecting to pay for the loco roster information. Having said that i completely understand your viewpoint and we are never going to be able to please everyone. Unfortunately these events are expensive to put on and therefore if you want to appreciate them as much as you can it's not going to be cheap!

Yes you could argue that rover tickets at diesel galas could be more expensive as you get more oportunities to ride on the trains. However it unfortunately also costs money to run non-passenger trains and provide the motive power for them. At steam galas we generally run more trains than diesel galas, (albeit the number of passenger trains may be fewer) so any such argument would not hold much water.

Hmm, 'lurking' is probably the best pace to be when viewing the yahoo group. No doubt you will have seen much of the rubbish that is posted on there. I think part of the problem is that the railway has been in severe debt for many years. Now at last the situation is improving and much effort has been made at trying to improve the steam galas which i think is now becoming evident. Like it or not, steam is the predominant motive power on the line and what most events are geared towards. I hope now that you will start to see a similar improvement in our diesel events and hopefully this will involve bringing in more visiting locomotives. If the rumours for the September gala are to be believed i think you could be in for a nice surprise

Phil

 

If I recall correctly the GCR's policy of charging for working timetables came about because there was a perception - rightly or wrongly - that certain elements of the photographic community were getting a 'free day out' without contributing a penny to the running costs. This seemed to be a particular problem at steam galas especially when there was freight running, as that's what a lot of photographers seem to want to see, so the charge for the working timetable was introduced to encourage these folk to make a modest contribution in exchange for their day out. People who just want to turn up and ride get the timetable with their runabout ticket anyway, so aren't actually being charged extra for the information. And in fact you could argue that those photographers with a conscience who used to buy a travel ticket and not use it (and yes there were some who did this so as to 'put a bit in the kitty') are actually now better off!

Another change in the last couple of years has been the introduction of numbered hi-vis vests for photographers, which allows the legitimate ones to be readily identified; I think it is probably fair to say that the relationship between staff and the photographers has improved as a result (although we still see some of them doing some stupid things...).

To the best of my knowledge we have never charged for passenger timetables - to do so would be counter-productive. And as the diesel gala is passenger-only, this event doesn't lend itself to having a separate working timetable booklet, as it would contain very little new information. I think it's as simple as that.

Of course you can't please everyone and if someone is driving a long way to travel behind a particular locomotive they will legitimately want to know which train it is on - a balancing act needs to be struck and whether we've quite got it right yet, I'm not sure. I'm sure though that if there were genuine concerns in this area then the GCR would do their best to address them, so constructive suggestions are welcome - but I don't honestly think we'll be going back to giving all of the info out for nothing, as it isn't in the GCR's overall best interest to do so.

Finally, I have no idea why the prices are pitched the way they are but perhaps it is to do with the fact that 'ordinary families' who turn up at a diesel gala by mistake will tend to be put off by being charged extra when what they really want is a steam engine, which is quite probably only doing one or two token trips during the day. And if you have to charge these people the 'normal' fare it would be somewhat unfair to charge the diesel fans extra.

At the end of the day I suppose it's all about market forces and maximising revenue - and goodness knows we need it, as do most heritage railways.

Opinions all my own, of course, and no reflection on official GCR policy which I must stress I have no influence over!

Phil

 

Speaking purely from personal opinion, I don't necessarily object to paying for rosters, but I do object to being sold an 'event guide' or 'souvenir booklet' in full glossy format, complete with a history of each loco, a guide to the line (which, let's be honest, hasn't changed since the last time I went to a gala at the same line!) and various other information which many enthusiasts will already know and won't bother to read, purely to access loco rosters... Perhaps a compromise could be reached whereby these full 'event guides' etc remain at their current prices, but an A4 timetable complete with loco rosters is available for maybe 50p or similar? AND AVAILABLE IN ADVANCE. It's certainly not beyond the means of technology to put the rosters up online, password protected, then give the password to people by email on receipt of payment... Noone's questioning the facts that circumstances change and rosters may have to reflect this, but this is just as much of a problem with 'event guides' which have to go to press days in advance... The above goes not just to the GC, but to all lines...

Incidentally, I remember a recent kwvr gala where a loco was failed on shed in the morning, and on arrival at Oxenhope on what I seem to recall being probably the 2nd train of the day(?), or there abouts, an announcement was made that replacement loco rosters were available from the booking office. Well it's nice to end on a positive note!