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Future covered workshop and storage space (especially for carriages) ?

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by toplight, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    It';s all guesswork (he says cynically)

    PH
     
  2. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    Dragging this thread back on topic, the earthworks at Herston required no additional powers / permissions (assuming they all took place within the boundary fence) to be obtained. To actually erect a building requires planning permission and unlike on the national network, Heritage Railways do not benefit from permitted development rights that technically negate the need to get formal planning permission for buildings directly related to supporting railway operations.

    Thus at Herston, the Swanage Raailway have not yet formerly obtained planning permission for a carriage shed as (i) It is not a cheap process and (ii) In an area of outstanding natural beauty the options available can be limited* They face similar issues at Furzebrook which has been designated a SSI and thus more or less puts a block on any development there despite it being on the face of things an ideal spot for enhanced workshop facilities.

    * For example the Bluebell are forbidden to build any structures over the up sidings alongside platform 1 as it would spoil the views from nearby viewpoints. As a result everything has to be built in the old goods yard on the down side of the station thus preserving the views in an 'area of outstanding natural beauty'
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Well, not really. Precise numbers may well be guesswork, but but rough ideas of how much passenger numbers will increase is not. Yes, it's based on assumptions and forecasts, but that's more than guesswork.

    What I do think will be harder to predict is the likely journeys passengers will take, where most folk will start and how far they'll travel. we're expecting the new timetables to be quite volatile in the first few years whilst we work out what works and what doesn't, and how passengers use our trains. But they *will* come.

    Oh, and as for comparing the pump rooms to Broadway, Broadway wins hands down. Even leaving aside the question of visitor numbers to both attractions, I suspect the people travelling to the Racecourse for the pump rooms will be vanishingly small, and AFAIK was never in the picture when the cheltenham extension was being built, whereas we think we'll get lots of passengers wanting to go into Broadway. Whilst the station's not ideally located, it's not too bad and a gentle stroll for a day out should be within plenty of people's capabilities. There are rumours of the council running a shuttle service on high days which would be a win win, We won't need to pay for it, and it will encourage more visiors to both the town and the railway.

    I hear what you say about everyone having cars so they can get to Toddington anyway, but that assumes that they know about the railway and have planned their day in advance. I think the station's close enough such that you will be able to hear the whistle, which will be good advertising for the railway. 750,000 visitors a year market, most of which is as yet untapped by the railway, is not to be sniffed at.
     
  4. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Are you sure about that? I was always led to believe that they did benefit from those rights.
     
  5. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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  6. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    I think the bus rumours are just that - rumours - neither Wychavon or Worcestershire councils are in the business of running shuttle buses ( the evening shuttles from County Hall car park to the centre of the city for the Victorian Fair in November and the shuttles from said car park to Six Ways on Rugby match days are run by the organisers of those events).
     
  7. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Worcestershire council did used to run the two park and rides but got rid of them of course, citing lack of use as the reason (along with having no money).

    They do however along with Wychavon still subsidise a fair few local bus services, maybe that's the thinking here rather than actually running it. However, given they scrapped the park and ride and don't seem to have any money I'd agree that it seems unlikely although not impossible.
     
  8. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    Toward the end, every passenger on the Park & Ride was subsidised by nearly £10.
     
  9. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    The subsidised buses are those which meet the "essential" criteria - I doubt if a shuttle bus from Broadway Station to the centre of the village for tourists would satisfy those criteria.
     
  10. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Yes I'd agree, I suppose the only likely way forward if it was part of a wider service or adding an additional to the bus services that already run to Broadway as like you I cannot see a stand alone service being realistic.
     
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  11. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    N N Creswells Service Rural 4 from Evesham to Willersey runs by the station ( and stops at the Caravan Park) 4 or 5 times a day (one only runs on school days) Mon-Sat, but not on Sundays. The timetable doesn't mention Bank Holidays. It only accepts Concessionary Travel Passes in Worcestershire, which implies that those joining in Willersey have to pay since that's in Gloucestershire!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    You can only spend your money once. Whilst the carriage shed will undoubtedly reduce maintenance costs, I suspect that the Broadway extension will have a better effect on the bottom line. Only time will tell, though, as any figures produced to support either argument is only someones best guess till it happens and best guesses are frequently slewed to support the sides involved in the argument.
     
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  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    It is as much about maintaining quality of the "product offered" as financial benefits. Covered storage means a vehicle retains the "edge" to its finish for longer than if it has to endure hard winters unprotected. Think of the poor C&W people too, having to endure rubbing down varnish coats then re-varnishing far more often than needed if the stock had proper shelter.

    PH
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Quality of product offered has a financial cost. The carriage shed does not, in itself maintain that. You can do that without one but it will cost in such as more frequent repaints. The end result of having a carriage shed or not can be put down to a financial cost. The same applies to extending to Broadway. If the extension to Broadway improves the bottom line by (say) 20% and not having to paint the coaches (say) by 10%, there is sound logic in the extension becaue that one will pay for the other eventually.
     
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  15. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    One will reduce costs over a long time, the other an increase in income immediately which should be sustained over time.

    There are no absolutes all investment decisions are speculative with possible risks and benefits.

    Opinions are subjective.

    Sawdust.
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    That is much more cheapskate than anything I have suggested! In other threads I have suggested that tourist railways need to realise they are hot competition with other leisure attractions and cannot afford to be dirtier and tattier than those. Please do not think I am suggesting in any way that the G.W.S.R. is "dirty" or "tatty" but at any railway these issues need constant attention. Covered storage is an important ally in this.

    PH
     
  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Surely there are only two relevant questions which might mitigate in favour of leaving expensively restored stock to the mercy of the elements viz. cost and space. Anyone suggesting otherwise can't be too familiar with the UK climate!
     
  18. BrightonBaltic

    BrightonBaltic Member

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    A post from PH with which nobody could reasonably disagree?!
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Could you imagine an NP where everyone always agreed? A hateful notion indeed!

    Sartre defined hell as 'being stuck in a room for all etenity with your friends' ..... he knew a thing or two, did Jean-Paul! :D
     
  20. BrightonBaltic

    BrightonBaltic Member

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    Is it not the case that the GlosWarks name is indicative of ambitions beyond Broadway? Until recently they were just the Glos. Now they're the GlosWorcs. The medium-term intention is to push on to the NR junction at Honeybourne... whether any extension beyond there towards Stratford may occur, I know not.
     
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