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Cumbrian Mountain Express 20/05/17

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 1020 Shireman, May 12, 2017.

  1. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Simply that those who do know have not made it public, possibly for the sake of diplomacy and fear of negative consequences in doing so. As I have said before in this thread itis not necessary for RTC to make a public statement provided they do right by anyone with a legitimate greivance. It beggars belief that there remains a number of posters who won't accept what the right thing to do is.
    In respect of the actual tour, it was a model operation and anyone travelling cannot fail to have been satisfied. Anyone expecting 46233 because they had been directly informed as such deserves an explanation and possibly a modest discount on a future tour as a gesture of goodwill IMHO.
     
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  2. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Just out of interest, I do not recall Mr Hardy being referred to as a pessimist, doom monger, whinger or moaner for expressing an informed opinion. The failure of his prediction is partly attributable to the adaptability of the "suppliers" to meet changing expectations. Markets continue to evolve but if the suppliers do not anticipate where new custom is, and the context they operate in with regard to conventions of customer service, they will end up proving Mr Hardy correct.
     
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  3. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    His assessment was based on operational and cost criteria, just be thankful that he was wrong.
     
  4. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    We are all massively thankful he was wrong because he was not able to foresee the innovation and adaptability that has sustained and grown demand. The demand helps make a much more compelling case for steam and it would be unwise to forget this is ultimately a customer reliant product.
     
  5. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    About nine or ten years ago one of the magazines had a free DVD which featured a lengthy interview with him and Peter Townsend, and he expressed his surprise and pleasure that mainline steam was thriving.

    Dave
     
  6. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Any info for next CME 15/7/17 yet
    lol
     
  7. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Member

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    We are reliably informed by that erudite font of all knowledge on CMEs, the RTC Website, that it will be steam hauled by either 46233, 70013 or 45690. Surely all can book with absolute confidence?
     
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes this is a discussion forum but please can a few of you just give it a rest? You know who you are. Personal comment - nothing more at this stage.
     
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  9. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Come on Al Its all good fun Dont get cross lol
     
  10. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    In order to avoid incurring further displeasure perhaps you would be kind enough to be more specific about the "it" that is to be refrained from?
     
  11. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    It would appear not!
     
  12. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    So, after the great variety of posts on this thread about the whys and wherefores, the CME did run on Saturday with 46115, that had obviously been a late addition to the pool of engines that RTC didn't know about in time to update their website. How did it go? (The speeds from the 13th are in brackets).

    We're pretty sure our driver was Mick Rawlings, with Chris Holmes his fireman. It's interesting to find out what approach will be made on the day as every run is different. Mick made a steady start with the cold fire and when asked the engine responded well on Yealand Bank, 33(33) at mp7, the start of the 2 1/4 miles climb at 1 in 134. The minimum speed was 32(30) a mile in with the Scot roaring over the summit at just over 33(30). Once over the top there is just under 4 miles to gain speed before the long 13 mile climb to Grayrigg that proved to be remarkably similar to the 13th.

    Milnethorpe, roughly mp 13 on the 1 in 173, was passed at 63(64); mp16 1/2 where it steepens to 1 in 111, 56(59); onto the 1 in 178 at mp18 1/2, 51(52); through Oxenholme, mp19ish, 50(52); on the short 1 in 124 at mp20, 49(49); onto the easing grade at 1 in 131 at mp 21 1/2 45(44); mid way point, mp23, 44(42); onto the final 2 miles of 1 in 106 at mp24, 44(42); mp25, 40(40); then at mp26, the summit, 37.7(37.6). After a bit of boiler filling and fire tending Mick accelerated the Scot through the Lune Gorge to a max of 73(71) at mp31 1/2.

    We passed Tebay on the 1 in 146 at 72(71) and left the 1 in 146 at 66(65). As linesiders' reported and filming showed, the Scot's climb of the 4 miles of 1 in 75, particularly the last mile, was a very good one with load 12. The Scot sounded superb and we hit a max of 73(71) on the level at mp31 1/2. Tebay on the 1 in 166 was passed at 72(71) and the foot of the 4 miles of 1 in 75 at mp33 and a bit was passed at 67(65). Then, as expected, speed fell quickly to 58(56) at mp 34; 46.5(44) at mp35; 35.7(35) at mp36. Unlike last week however, the Scot then rallied with speeds over the final mile being: 34.4(32.7) at mp36 1/4; 33.2(30.6) at mp36 1/2; 32.3(28.9) at mp36 3/4; 31.5(28) at mp 37, and 31.5(27.2) at mp37 1/4, the end of the 1 in 75. For the record the flat summit at 37 1/2 was passed at 30.1(25.4) after the now obligatory slip by the rail greaser. A swift run down in the 70s followed, with Penrith passed at 73. The max was around 77 for a mile or so and we drifted into Carlisle Citadel some 6 minutes early.

    We left on time and had the same sort of fairly muted run to Appleby, 60 only just about achieved around Culgaith and then at Long Marton. Despite this, due to the slack timings, we arrived at Appleby 2 minutes early.

    So, what of the climb to Ais Gill? The Scot crossed Ormside at 54(55) into the first 3 miles at 1 in 100. The exhaust sounded crisper and noisier but this wasn't altogether supported by the speed as we only entered Helm Tunnel, at the halfway point at 39(42); the top of section at mp272, was passed at 39(35). We crossed Griseburn, mp272 and a bit, the start of the 1 in 166, at 39(35) and passed mp271 at 42(37). The next mile of 1 in 100 to Crosby Garrett was met at 47(39). The Scot accelerated nicely to a max of 51 through the short tunnel and over the viaduct on the mile of level/1 in 220/level. On the 2 miles+ of 1 in 100 to Kirkby Stephen speed fell quite sharply, dropping to 42(37) through Waitby, and to 39(33) through the station on the short 1 in 264. The next mile 2 miles+ of 1 in 100 starts just past the signal box, mp266 1/2, 39(33). Again, on the 1 in 100, speed fell sharply to 32(31) into Birkett Tunnel, 2 miles in at roughly mp264 1/2. Once out of the tunnel the grade eases to just under a mile at 1 in 320 rounding Mallerstang Common. The Scot picked up well and came off the section at mp263 at 41(39). Its then a 3 mile climb at 1 in 100 to the summit. Our speed picked up noisily to 42(39) at mp262 3/4, but then fell gradually to: 39(35) at mp262; 37(33) at mp 261 (Ais Gill Viaduct); and 34.7(30) at mp 260, the top of the climb. The plateau summit board was passed at 38(35). The time taken was 27m 21s (29m 24s) to mp260 and 27m 46s(29m 52s) to the Summit board.

    Garsdale was passed at 54(54), Rise Hill Tunnel entered at 52(47); Dent 31(33); Arten Gill Viaduct 55(53) and into Blea Moor Tunnel at 51(54). We drifted down the bank to Settle 48(60); Settle Junction 61(60); climbed well to Bell Busk 44(43), and arrived for our water stop in Hellifield Loop on time. We left right time down the freight only line to Horrocksford Junction, passed at 34(28), a few minutes early. Nothing much to say about Hellifield to Clitheroe apart from its mostly downhill and seems to have a 50 mph limit. Clitheroe was passed at 41(24) and with a nice sound coming from the front we passed Whalley Station at 46(45). There is no slack over the arches now which is one of the reasons the CMEs recover time between here and Wilpshire Summit. We met the 3 miles of 1 in 81 1/2 at 46(45), after which speed fell steadily; Langho 31(34); after the slight easing to half mile of 1 in 86, Wilpshire Tunnel 27(28); then after the final 3/4 mile of 1 in 86, Ramsgreave and Wilpshire Station, pretty much the summit, 25(28). After a clear run through Daisyfield we arrived in Blackburn almost 6 minutes early. The timings down to Farington Junction aren't tight. With a max of 62 on a short section above Bamber Bridge, we arrived 7 minutes early.

    So, Mick did a good job of getting the best out of the Scot with its heavy 12 coach train. Chris did an excellent job providing plenty of steam all day. The climb of Shap was very good; Appleby to Ais Gill Summit was decent, over 2 minutes quicker than the 13th but lacked the characteristic charge to the summit of old; Wilpshire was just a little disappointing. All in all a decent day out without a Duchess!! Don't know how much more we'll see and hear of the Scot this time around and I'll certainly miss its distinctive sounds around the Cumbrian Fells.
     
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  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I've said this before but that's no different to what happened under BR in the 70s and 80s. Pools of locos for CME, CCE, York Circulars, Shakespeares. You booked a trip and took pot luck. And do you know what? Nobody complained as we were just happy to be getting some main line steam haulage. Can't make the midweek stuff these days but whilst I may prefer one loco over another, if I found myself able to make a booking, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over not knowing exactly which loco was going to turn up. I work on the basis that we can think ourselves damn lucky we've got any steam at all on the main line.
     
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  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Spot on johnb but these moaners need an axe to grind to fill their otherwise empty lives. :)
     
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  15. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    It is odd how the "moaners" as you call them are commenting on a specific issue whereas you seem only to grumble about them expressing an opinion. Harking back to a different age and expecting other folk to be perpetually satisfied simply because you are is unrealistic. All that has been said by way of criticism is that from a customers point of view there is room for improvement in how things are done but not much evidence of any appetite to acknowledge this. Without improvement there is a risk that less tolerant customers might be put off if they perceive the "product" does not meet expectations. Surely improvement is something we each have interest in wishing for?
     
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  16. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    But do you have to express the same opinion over and over again - talk about a needle stuck in a grove! Trust me, although we respect your views, many of us find the endless repetition of them more than a bit tedious.

    Time for a Nat Pres Boreometer anyone?

    Peter James
     
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  17. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It seems to pity to prolong this discussion on and on and on, but the above is not relevant. While the trip as initially advertised may have been with a pool of locos and pot luck on the day, at least one customer was promised a particular loco, which then was not provided despite apparently being available. I've lost track of whether that particular customer has been told why and/or offered some compensation, but even if so it leaves some of us with an outstanding concern about the lack of transparency.

    Some on here have stated quite bluntly that they refuse to book with this or that company because there is too much uncertainty about whether they would actually get what they would be paying for. I myself am not entirely avoiding any of the railtour promoters but I am much more inclined to book with some than with others.
     
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  18. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Member

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    I'm with you on this. I would like to do more tours. I have the money and health to do so. I also have an understanding and enthusiastic wife who enjoys the days out behind steam. But she too expresses disappointment and concern when what is paid for is not delivered. We travel Premier of First - it all depends on the destination and quality of restaurants at said destinations. We book early to secure the seats we want. With the ongoing uncertainty and failure to address the same, we have held back and will continue to do so.
     
  19. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    I am genuinely sorry to be a bore and fill precious bandwidth with tedious content.
    I feel exactly the same regarding the "pot luck", "like it or lump it" and "it was good enough in the 80s" variations of excuse.
    So I will declare gracefully now.
     
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  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just received an e-mail from WCRC regarding extra dates for the Dalesman "due to demand." A quick look at the Dalesman page on their web site shows that it is advertised as steam hauled but nowhere is there mention of any particular loco nor a pool of locos. So it would seem that those booking the Dalesman are happy to know it's booked for steam haulage but not that concerned as to the identity of the loco. Whilst knowing in advance may be important for some on here, it looks like there's more than enough bookings from people who aren't so worried about such details. And if WCRC can fill trains and run extra dates without committing themselves to any loco in particular, who can blame them?
    Just out of interest, does the Torbay Express have locos advertised for each run or just a list of which locos are in the pool?
     

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