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Cumbrian Mountain Express 20/05/17

Discussion in 'What's Going on' started by 1020 Shireman, May 12, 2017.

  1. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Active Member Friend

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    Had e-ticket and letter today. Disappointingly no Duchess again. 46115 with load 12. Wouldn't have minded one of the first three with 46115 but all of them? WCR raking the money in while seemingly PMR lose out again. And to think they cancelled their programme due to the demands on their engine, the 13/5 and 20/5 CMEs being 2 of them.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  2. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    At least chance to appreciate 46115 fully before withdrawal though?
    There must be reasons why 46233 is not being used?
     
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  3. steam man

    steam man New Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2017
  4. steam man

    steam man New Member

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    Maybe there is an issue with hire charges for the Duchess ? just a thought because as seen on the GB there is nothing wrong with the engine .
     
  5. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Active Member Friend

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    Got nothing against 46115 just wouldn't have booked all 3 trains. Talking of, when does Guardsman's s ticket run out? Anyone know? It must be an extended 10 year ticket as its first mainline tour was in August 2008. No idea how long before that the boiler ticket was issued.
     
  6. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Strikes me as highly unlikely that the cost of hiring 46233 would be significantly higher and would have been agreed in any case when the original bookings of the Duchess were made. Or are you thinking WC has undercut the price agreed for 46233? Can't see that either myself.
     
  7. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Active Member

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    If they were "planned" with 46233 the surely they would have had a contract for 46233. So undercutting price would have involved breaking a contract?
     
  8. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Which is why it is highly unlikely that is the reason for the swap.
    More likely support crew or a technical issue the reason.
     
  9. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    I agree. Another possibility is that due to other locos being unavailable for other trips, since the Duchess is now hauling the Peak Forester 4/6 instead of Mayflower, and The Hadrian 27/5 instead of Cromwell.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  10. 46223

    46223 Part of the furniture

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    From the 46233 Faceache page....

    'Duchess of Sutherland' is not running on 13th or 20th May as originally planned. No operational problem, simply due to being in a pool of available locomotives.
     
  11. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Thanks for sharing. The definition of "pool" now seems questionable. That information must be mighty frustrating for PRCLT as the rest of the "pool" has not had to relocate to be "available". Plus tickets sold for 46233 but subbed without substantive reason?
     
  12. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Active Member Friend

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    Couldn't agree more. Don't like seeing SG struggling with 12 coach trains that would be a breeze for the Duchess. This is the serious downside of the TOC and Stock arrangement. Ask yourself, what suits WCR best? Paying a hire charge to a third party for their engine or using one of their own??? Kerching!!!!
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Is it not RTC footing the bill though as hirer of stock, loco and TOC? Surely it is they who agree prices and have the contracts not WC?
     
  14. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    I would have have though so. Marcus of SD has always said he was responsible for hiring locos, so would have though it is the same with RTC.

    I do not believe RTC have said a particular loco for these trips. Website still states 6233 Duchess of Sutherland, 45690 Leander or 70013 Oliver Cromwell, and a email from them stated 46115 or 46233. It was only 46233 website with stated they were down for the trips on the 13th and 20th May and even this stated it might change.
     
  15. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    That seems a fair summary, the only real conclusions to be drawn being how unrealistic the web info is and that the PRCLT caveat proved correct - reasons unknown. Taken at face value it does seem odd to have dropped one of the published pool locos when it is apparently available and on hand. So long as all is well it does not really matter.
     
  16. mike1522

    mike1522 Well-Known Member

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    Just my opinion, for what it is worth I think it is wrong to be advertising 46233 with people buying tickets to ride behind The Duchess not to get what they paid for.
     
  17. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Not sure it has quite occurred to that extent. A pool was advertised but 46233 seems not to have been selected even though the other two in the pool haven't been available. PRCLT did say the loco was rostered on certain dates, which my be subject to change, as has been the case. Quite why 46115 got the nod can only be speculated at but it is enjoying a final flourish which will please many.
     
  18. mike1522

    mike1522 Well-Known Member

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    I highly respect the people at PRLCT and west shed, they keep their locomotive in top condition most of the time. I feel like this is a let down for them and think that railway touring company owes them an apology.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
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  19. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    So many critical comments about different organisations on here, without anyone knowing the actual situation or how the decisions were made.

    Give it a rest!
     
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  20. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Active Member Friend

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    No doubt you didn't spend £396 booking the trains after being told on the phone that the Duchess would be hauling the 13th and 20th May as we were.
     
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