If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Cumbrian Mountain Express - 14/10/17

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by iancawthorne, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I've news for you sunshine, my days are very full with my business, my partner, my dog, my friends and not least a steam loco to support.
    Still, if you think bellyaching endlessly about WCRC/RTC equals a full life, fair play to you.
     
    Bulleid Pacific likes this.
  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think the saying "if the cap fits, wear it" would apply to 26D_M in this case.
     
  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Those were the days.
     
  4. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    860
    Likes Received:
    472
    Location:
    Bath
    Out of curiosity, how much impact does that blowing tap have on railhead conditions. Initial thought was that blowing oily steam all over the railhead in front wouldn't be that helpful - especially on a cooler day where the steam is going to condense to make a slippery mess with any oil its carrying. But then it was clear that the sanders were on which presumably would help overcome that mess. So is the seemingly recurrent weakness of some locos in this regard a relevant factor or just at worst a minor exacerbating factor that doesn't really make any difference. If it is a relevant factor, is there any means of some form of collective thought process to find a solution?
     
  5. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Would the London market for CME be diminished without the steam aspect? The route is a selling point in itself and with modern traction, departure could be later and arrival home earlier. What percentage of the customer base is there only for the steam haulage?
     
  6. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    15,736
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I would imagine a fair amount, I cannot imagine they are going for a couple of hours in Carlisle.

    When I was a kid we used to join and leave at Rugby (but in those days I think the tour itself only ran from Birmingham and you got a service train up to Birmingham which was possible as it was all under the auspices of BR) and even then it was a bloody long day.

    Possibly the solution would be to see if the promoters could get some manner of tie up with VTWC (would ensure loading were better for them early on a Saturday morning) and possibly run the steam from say Preston or Lancaster only?
     
  7. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,276
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    Me! (0.003%?)
     
    60017 likes this.
  8. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Quite! I was thinking more of the scenic delights from the windows of 'lovingly restored classic 1950/60's large windowed coaches (sic)' point of view. :eek:
     
  9. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    15,736
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    :D

    In the happier days I don't think we even left the station in Carlisle, you just rolled in, steam was put on the other end and off you trundled south....

    When I was about 4 my dad lost me in the crowd at Carlisle and as he had always told me in such cases to just get back on the train whilst panicked he did likewise himself. Apparently he was properly frantic when I finally wandered, perfectly calm, through the train back to my seat on the approach to Appleby. I don't think he ever told my mother!
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,067
    Likes Received:
    20,775
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    These RTC CMEs fill up progressively as you go north. The Euston contingent is quite a small one. Most in the south get on at Milton Keynes, then Rugby. The usual people get on at Preston for a mostly steam day and one that is quite short. It seems to work but the London departure is really just the mechanism for getting the train up to the north west. That said, I expect that the VT trip this weekend will have quite a lot of the regulars who board at Tyseley.
     
    60017 likes this.
  11. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If that happened today, some well-meaning soul on the train would report him to social services!

    In all seriousness though (and given Al's comments above) I do wonder if (as has been said on the forum before) much shorter repeat itinerary's will be the saviour of main line steam operations in the future? A tie-in with the big TOCS (as you suggested) could bring business from further afield.
     
  12. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,893
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    One problem I would perceive with the idea of a tie up with VTWC (even if they were interested as when I have travelled early & late Saturday they always seem full maybe with cheap fares I agree) is who picks up the problems and the costs when things go wrong, plus you are no longer selling a complete day out but a collection of parts.
    So you would have to allow sufficient time for "things to go wrong" so the 0730 from Euston gets you to Preston at 0938, that is only a 20 minute later departure than the CME and only calls at Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan. The 0743 goes via Birmingham and takes over three hours and still does not call at Rugby or Nuneaton and gets you there after the 0830 from Euston arrives. Not sure what time you would leave Preston but perhaps 1020 based on the timings for 70000 from Crewe back in May 15 which was the last tour that had steam from south of Carnforth I could quickly find as we all seem to think there is only the one path over Shap off Carnforth around (depending on TPE) 1120.
    Have not researched the evening back but which train do you "aim for" not then make it due perhaps to an issue like last Saturday. Then have your passengers perhaps stand, or it is so late that Virgin have to lay on taxis, who pays for that, RTC or VTWC?
    This of course assumes people are happy to wait on a gloomy draughty Preston rather than sit in a (normally) warm train, I know which I would prefer. Then of course you have the diners who would not be getting all their meals served in one place, and may not get a full breakfast or 5 course dinner on VTWC, as I am not sure what their offering is.
    Nothing of course is impossible but it would not be an offering that appealed to me if I was paying for the day out.
    It would also put more pressure on the northern stewards as I guess you would not be dead heading them from London and points north (although some people seem so incapable of reading a departure board maybe you would have to from each point you sold the tour from).
    Just may initial random thoughts really.
     
  13. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Fair points, soundly made. I guess the occasional risk in 'overloading' a steam locomotives capability is the lesser of two evils?
     
  14. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    And yet you always find time to share your "wisdom". :-?
    The disparaging generalisation "whingers" aimed at individuals voicing criticism rather than countering the substance of the post, far easier to take aim at the messenger than raise a rational challenge to the points being made?
    All we see in this case is the tedious cabal grumbling again because they don't like to see WC/RTC the subject of objective concerns? Whatever is written demands nothing of you, you clearly get agitated by it as your own "endless bellyaching" betrays so why not just ignore it and stick to things which make you happy?
     
    Dobbs0054 likes this.
  15. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    Might be worth considering the equally worthy comment made by @gricerdon at #70. Risks are plentiful without choosing to take avoidable ones.
     
    gricerdon likes this.
  16. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    OK
     
  17. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,882
    Likes Received:
    3,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    TBC
    Location:
    Birmingham & Arley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Of course, forgot it was VT gig this sat. Load 10/11 surely.
     
  18. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    No, for me Shap with steam is probably the main reason for going
     
  19. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    15,736
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    :)

    From recollection I think there is already some sort of tie up with northern on the Fellsman? plus northern do have similar things in place with the Ratty etc.

    It maybe in terms of the modern railway it just has to be accepted that one cannot do London to the northern fells on a single day and leave it there, its obvious that if anyone wants to run such trains regularly it has to be WCRC as DBS don't appear to have the coverage up here (or any inclination to do so) for regular running and WCRC are stuck between a rock and a hard place as economics suggest a certain length of train is needed which either needs an 8P which are presently rather scarce and the one they do have might not be the best for a wet windy run on grotty rail conditions (just imagine the fun and games which may have followed at the weekend with BIL on Wilpshire) or a diesel assistance or a struggle and they will get battered if either of the latter two are considered.

    Sadly I fear people have been spoilt in recent years and a shock is beckoning....
     
    60017 and 26D_M like this.
  20. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    15,736
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    All good points, as per my post it was considerably easier in the past as it was all under the BR banner. Shap seems to be the problem and may have to be omitted in the future if paths cannot be found, we managed without it from the 70's to the mid 90's? (not sure when as I discovered alcohol and girls around this period and thus took very little interest for 10 years) and possibly will have to manage again? The fact that things like the Fellsman and Dalesman book up months in advance suggest there is an entirely sustainable market up here.
     
    60017 likes this.

Share This Page