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GWSR Broadway Developments

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I don't think a brick built goods shed at Winchcombe would have blended in any better at all given the rest of the station isn't brick built either. You can't really claim it would blend in with the C+W workshop as it is flanked both sides by modern clad buildings and isn't really "in" the station anyway. It does look better from the other side with the canopy etc.

    One thing I did notice when I popped in last week was some horrible shiny metal handrails around it though - they look absolutely awful!

    The whole of Winchcombe station is pastiche arguably anyway other than an original station building in a completely different style. That doesn't stop it being my favourite station, and it will remain so even after Broadway opens.

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  2. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

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    But no, this would not do for the Directors of the GWSR who are obsessed with "bums on seats" and must have something, anything, in fact before the Santa season 2017 kicks off.

    So instead you get this. Can you reall say you prefer it?

    View attachment 32191 So the the new Visitor centre occupies the bottom rung of the restoration spectrum. A totally NAF (Non Authentic Fabrication) to satisfy an immediate short term commercial need but will be a legacy to this attitude for the next 100 years.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry to say it, but that is utter crap. A sort of cynical "Developers vernacular"[/QUOTE]

    Erm Mark, I think you miss the point. This was supposed to be based on a GWR goods shed to fit in with a GWR station. Perhaps using the second picture you could point to one GWR feature or style you can find.
     
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  3. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to say it, but that is utter crap. A sort of cynical "Developers vernacular"[/QUOTE]

    Erm Mark, I think you miss the point. This was supposed to be based on a GWR goods shed to fit in with a GWR station. Perhaps using the second picture you could point to one GWR feature or style you can find.[/QUOTE]
    Either I'm architecturally blind, or just wilful, but I cannot see one single even vaguely generic railway feature about it.
    It looks like a large public toilet.
     
  4. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    I can understand the disappointment in the non authentic building, and remember the original GWR goods shed at Winchcombe is still there (its now the C and W building), however from the GWRs point of view I can see they need to generate large amounts of cash to pay for all the new rail, ballast, construction etc (laying lines from scratch)

    One thing in the railways defence certainly when I worked as a volunteer there (15 years ag0 in C and W), all the materials we used paint, tools, wood etc was paid for by the railway and each department even then had a set budget which with hindsight I can see was quite high even then. Contrast this with some smaller railways, there is little available 'railway money' and projects are all paid for by the owners of each item using their own paid for materials and own tools. I expect the directors have said, well we have x amount available in the budget for the Elf centre and have built it to that budget.

    With the Alresford Goods shed, I believe this was an original that was falling down which the lottery cash paid to reconstruct. That is the difference, if the lottery come along and say well here is £600k or whatever, then it is easy to go for the authentic high cost best option, but if the railway is spending say 20k of its own money then it will be done much more cheaply with the money available.

    So you could look at the Elf centre as none authentic to cater for young families but helping generate cash for rail, paint, materials etc for other more authentic projects on the railway. To give an example of something authentic, an original pattern water tower has been installed at Toddington to replace the one that was originally there but things like that need funding. Everything comes down to money.
     
  5. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

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    Mark, apologies , I see you didn't miss the point at all, you were referring to the Building and not my post!

    As for it looking like a public toilet, you might well think that but I couldn't possibly comment.
     
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  6. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    It must be possible to erect the dismantled shed and then clad it in 'wiggly tin' to look very similar to that shown above. What became of the lightweight wiggly tin originally purchased to clad the canopy, and which the volunteers spent ages cleaning and priming, before the sensible decision to use decent quality stuff? That would be ideal to disguise a shed as something with a GWR-like appearance.

    Andy
     
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  7. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering when the sh*t would hit the fan about the Winchcombe carbuncle.

    Prior to its erection, a postage stamp sized drawing of it was put in the Cornishman. The design was based on an actual stone shed at Ashburton. The little drawing showed big wooden sliding doors on the platform side.

    No one had any idea how huge it would be. It towers above the little Monmouth Troy building, as well as the GWR signal box from Hall Green nearby. It is much, much larger than the wooden 'Elf centre' shed it was meant to replace.

    There was never any discussion about its authenticity or realism. Based on the little drawing, my first thoughts were it should be either in brick, to match the style of the SB and goods shed, or stone, as with the station. There was also no chimney, as at Ashburton. I passed these thoughts on to the director responsible.

    I was told that it was not a replica of Ashburton, but inspired by. (Our mission as per Trust statutes is to create a railway museum for the benefit of the public). There was no need for a chimney. The material would not be natural stone, but Bradstone. Reason: other buildings are already in Bradstone.
    A member of the loco dept. then offered to fabricate the ironwork for the sliding doors, if natural stone was used.

    The result was the chimneyless Bradstone building, without sliding doors. The guttering and downpipes are plastic, modern security lights have been bolted on the car park side, the shiny railings added as already noticed, and the 'blocked up' entrances for the goods wagons only hinted at by a semi circle of Bradstone, filled in with Bradstone. They are completely unconvincing, we won't be teaching history with them. The inside of the building is in modern materials, there is not a hint of history, days gone by or museum there. The building is surrounded by wooden fencing, B&Q style, not the spearhead there once was.

    A volunteer working in the PWay yard several hundred yards away remarked that it looked OK from here, and that sums up the philosophy behind the design of this carbuncle: It had to look right from a distance. Our public, for whose benefit we are building a museum, will however have to see it up close. Concrete, steel, Bradstone, plastic.

    Isn't it actually illegal for a charity whose objective it is to build a museum to part fund something that is nothing like?
     
  8. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    So, what would you have done then? This building is much more like a railway structure than the previous wooden shed. Are you a director? Are you bankrolling the Railway? Seeing as you seem to care so much for the GWSR as to carp at it when it tries to do anything it seems. Anyway, for what its worth, I agree to some extent, it could have looked even more "authentic" (whatever that means) than it does but this is not a model railway that can be constructed to replicate the past in miniature, it's a life-size commercial operation which relies on attracting everyone, not just men of a certain age who have interesting hobbies.
     
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  9. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

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    And the purpose of a Railway museum is to interpret the past for the benefit of the public. Lets see how this building fulfills that basic function.

    winchcombe station visitor centre.JPG


    Little Tommy " Whats that building Dad?"
    Dad "Well it is a replica of a Goods Shed"
    Little Tommy " Whats a Goods Shed Dad?
    Dad " Well you see those bricked up ends, that would be where the wagons entered to be unloaded by the lorries."
    Little Tommy " So how did the lorries get in Dad?"
    Dad " Beats me. Lets go inside and buy lots of Thomas the Tank Engine books so you can see how railways really were!"
     
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  10. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    On this occasion I have to admit to agreeing to totally disagree with you. I think it's much better than what was there before. I understand that the building is used, inter alia, as the replacement Santa Centre and also in the future, for displaying historical artefacts/exhibitions etc. As this whole business of authenticity is clearly getting to you, you may wish to consider standing as a director. (After what I've just written I would still give you my vote!)
     
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  11. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Erm Mark, I think you miss the point. This was supposed to be based on a GWR goods shed to fit in with a GWR station. Perhaps using the second picture you could point to one GWR feature or style you can find.[/QUOTE]
    Either I'm architecturally blind, or just wilful, but I cannot see one single even vaguely generic railway feature about it.
    It looks like a large public toilet.[/QUOTE]
    It looks OK to me.
     
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  12. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Either I'm architecturally blind, or just wilful, but I cannot see one single even vaguely generic railway feature about it.
    It looks like a large public toilet.[/QUOTE]
    It looks OK to me.[/QUOTE]

    And therein lies the problem?
     
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  13. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

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    Read my post, I suggested the same approach as at Broadway, steel frame authentic brickwork and details


    Railways had lots of wooden sheds, they had no Bradstone and Plastic sheds


    No I am not a Director are you?


    Yes I am a shareholder so I am bankrolling the Railway in a way.



    As Breva says it is Trust that is bound by its statutes to create a Museum of the past.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  14. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    It looks OK to me.[/QUOTE]

    And therein lies the problem?[/QUOTE]
    "One man's public toilet is another man's house." Was it Oscar Wilde who said that? He should have!;)
     
  15. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree, if the money were available. However, let's just rejoice that we have the GWSR at all.
     
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  16. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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  17. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    And therein lies the problem?[/QUOTE]
    "One man's public toilet is another man's house." Was it Oscar Wilde who said that? He should have!;)[/QUOTE]
    If it was Wilde, it may well have been "another man's cottage":rolleyes:
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It would be a very strange law if it was. If you look round comparable organisations, such as the National Trust, you will find many buildings built to meet specific modern operational requirements (shops, cafes, entrance buildings, museums etc) that are not necessarily architectural copies of what went before. (And sometimes they may take a view that deliberately distinct may well be better than trying, unsuccessfully, to pastiche the pre-existing architectural designs).

    One key issue would seem to me to be about the relationship between buildings: in other words, a necessary, but architecturally inhomogeneous, building would be more acceptable if in some way screened from the main building / attraction that is the focus of the charitable trust. But that isn't always possible within available land holdings, especially as it is a feature of railways that you get tight clusters of related buildings, separated by long thin strips of nothingness.

    None of that should be taken as an endorsement of the building in question, but just to point out that a law to require a charitable trust to somehow only construct "authentic" buildings would be unworkable (good luck designing a practical Stonehenge visitor centre in "authentic" fashion!) The key must surely be to work with an architect sympathetic to the visual constraints of the whole site, rather than construct buildings in isolation.

    Tom
     
  19. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say your contribution is greatly valued. *But*, there are also plenty of shareholders, members and volunteers perfectly happy with it too. I wouldn't say I'm perfectly happy with it, but it's *ok*. A shame it couldn't be more than that though.

    @Kinghambranch isn't the one complaining though!!


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  20. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, I am a shareholder, both in the GWSR and 2807. I'm not a director and never have been although it might have been a "WIBN" or a poisoned chalice, who knows. I doubt if anyone would want me! However, I tend not to get quite so wound up by what the GWSR does as some contributors do. Maybe it's because I remember it (Winchcombe Station as recently as 1986) only too well like this:
    19861201-Winchcombe platform 1 rebuild starts.jpg
     

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