If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Broadway Station Rebuild

Discussion in 'Heritage railways & Centres in the Uk' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. jnc

    jnc Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    234
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    If you've been following this thread, you'll probably have noticed a theme. If not, read back a dozen pages or so...

    :-(

    Noel
     
  2. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    584
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I understood that an electrical master panel would be located within the station building once the building structure was largely complete and the platform 1 gap filled and made good. As you suggest, it's the safest solution as well as being the one that solves the problem of some of the "out of character" structures.

    I know that the ranks of GWSR volunteers include people with H&S and electrical installation experience and professional advice is sought where necessary. What appears to be winding some people up is that there seems to be an "on the bus, off the bus" approach to period authenticity at Broadway and I can only presume that this is due to the original plans for Broadway Station not being sufficiently detailed to represent evidence-based details of a station as it was when built. That said, great efforts have been made to replicate original features such as the spear fencing, GWR lamp posts, station canopy etc. Perhaps we should wait and see how things pan out over the next few months. Once again, my apologies if the information I have garnered is incorrect or misrepresentative of the facts "on the ground."
     
  3. Breva

    Breva Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    511
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The replicated original features are largely the result of a small number of heritage minded people, who are struggling to improve on the original concept that the station 'has to look right from a distance'.

    I will ask about the future of the BR location cupboards.
     
    Kinghambranch, AndyY and ianh like this.
  4. AndyY

    AndyY New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    149
    The problem with "wait and see how things pan out over the next few months" is that it might then be too late to fix any problems. They need to be flagged up as soon as they are spotted before work gets too advanced.

    I appreciate that the volunteers might get demotivated by comments on this forum, which certainly isn't the intention. On the other hand they may well be saying " 'Management' won't listen to us, and if it wasn't for comments on the forum we'd now have the B&Q style of canopy rather than the splendid structure we now have".
     
    Bill Drewett likes this.
  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,779
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    One other thing that i struggle to understand is this, On the GWR you have 2 stations original buildings from the time the line was built, and even if photographic evidence of the original station buildings at Broadway are sparse, enough do exist to get a good outline idea, and the original buildings and canopy etc do allow you to fill in the blanks,along with other GW station pictures to cross reference So when you look at the "problems" i can see no good reason why mistakes have been made, other than sheer bloody mindedness on behalf of someone who has no idea of what heritage is, and the GWR have form in this field, the signalbox windows at Race Course station , is it by chance the same group of people deciding policy at Broadway as what decided to fit plastic frames at CRC ?
     
  6. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    145
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bristol
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The encouraging thing we've seen recently is poor work (from a heritage point of view) being dismantled and re-done to a higher standard. The chimneys are an example, but not the only one. It looks as though the 'small number of heritage minded people' are being listened to, and that learning is taking place as the project develops. I really hope that's the case. If it is, those location cabinets won't be there much longer.
     
  7. AndyY

    AndyY New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    149
    Apart from being 'blots on the landscape' and totally out of place on a Great Western-era platform, they just look like a lethal accident waiting to happen once the platform becomes a public place. Just look at the picture above, an electrical cabinet with a water tap on the side!
     
  8. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    584
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree, there is plenty of extant evidence of GWR design on the GWSR without even studying the surviving GWR structures on other parts of the Birmingham-Cheltenham GWR line. However, the 2 signal boxes at CRC and Gotherington were constructed in 2002 to be ready for the CRC extension to open in 2003. Things have moved on a bit since then and, given the strength of feeling (perhaps even "love") for the GWSR, it would probably not happen today. The 2 signal boxes have now been there for 15 years and do their job (but clearly don't look the part externally to many people which I can understand). Soon they will have been there for 20 years and I'm minded to put them forward as listed structures - no, perhaps not! :);)
     
  9. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    175
    Given that a) the internals of these boxes are functioning well and do their job and b) there exisits a phenomenal team at Broadway capable of creating a fantastically accurate GWR box from scratch externally (as well as internally), would it not be possible to rebuild the exterior of these structures into something more fitting, whilst retaining the working internals?
     
    ghost and Kinghambranch like this.
  10. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,498
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Timber cladding perhaps?
     
  11. Gloucester Boy

    Gloucester Boy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    87
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    This box is still being used to provide current for our electric mixer, as we restarted laying the kerb stones along the driveway last Wednesday . We calculated that we have around 140 more to lay, so we will be using it for a while yet. No idea what will happen to it after that, but I agree if its possible to remove them when no longer required, this would be best.

    Following advice from the Civil Engineering Head of Department, the "kink" in the spear fencing was needed as it wasn't possible to continue with it on the outside of the platform edge, due to the top of the embankment being unstable, which is why it was moved a little way onto the platform at this point and edging stones added to match those at the back of the platform. The platform is particularly wide at this point so will not affect passengers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,779
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    And replacement Wooden windows , ;)
    What to a degree saddens me is that at Broadway, the team had a chance to build something from scratch that could have been a gem, an historically accurate station, in an area renown for being an outstanding part of Britain, but someone decided that it would be ok to in effect just pay lip service to what to most visitors should be something that should be the wow factor, Wrong design of canopy extension, the staircase to close, these decisions can not be changed, BR era boxes on the platform, cables can be trunked in to the building, if you need exterier sockets, why not hide them in the lamp stantions under an opening flap ? that way you have the appearence but with the modern additions hidden from view, and most important safe from the public if its to charge coach batteries, fit power points into the 6 ft.
     
  13. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    584
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Wooden windows of a high quality are not cheap but if people want them enough, as they did for Broadway SB, then they'll happen I'm sure. Additional cladding would give the CRC and Gotherington boxes a similar look to the Type 12A signal box, one of which is shown here at Claverdon. Anyway, that's for the future and not relevant to Broadway.
    http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrc926.htm

    What's wrong with Broadway Canopy? Do you mean the extension that should go on one side and link to the bridge?
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,779
    Likes Received:
    4,009
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Wasnt the design of the stantions changed to a GW style, from an non authentic design? and the bridge sighted to close to the canopy needing the extension to be altered ? its attention to detail, its ensuring that large structures are sited in the right place, once put up, you can not easily put right this oversight, so you will have a canopy extension that will never look quite right
     
  15. jnc

    jnc Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    234
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    But the evidence needed for an exact reproduction is close to hand; and we've heard how people said 'it was done this way', and been ignored (even when there was no cost/schedule impact). So while I agree with the 'hit and miss' part, it seems that your suggestion for the root cause is amiss...


    For some things (e.g. the foot-bridge location), yes, it's too late. But I suspect the electrical boxes can be remedied at some point down the road without incurring huge expense. My take would be not too press to hard on them (make a request, and if it's ignored, pass on), and keep the power dry for the ones that really matter.
    Yes, indeed, very much. I'm incredibly impressed by the work of the volunteers (I've been so impressed I've been lending support via my wallet :)).


    Alas, IMO, that's no way to run a railroad (sic). How'd you like to be a volunteer whose work had to be ripped out because it had been done wrong?

    Noel
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
    David R and flying scotsman123 like this.
  16. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    584
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    "But the evidence needed for an exact reproduction is close to hand; and we've heard how people said 'it was done this way', and been ignored (even when there was no cost/schedule impact). So while I agree with the 'hit and miss' part, it seems that your suggestion for the root cause is amiss..."
    So if it wasn't sufficiently detailed plans, was it due to project management? Was it due to a lack of interest by some or all GWSR directors? Was it due to lack of money? I don't know. Perhaps Breva's term that the Broadway site "had to look good from a distance" contains the answer. I'm sure that improvements will continue to be made and I agree that, for some "bloopers", it's too late. Nevertheless, I can't wait for Broadway station to open next year. It won't be finished but it will be pretty good!
     
    David R and jnc like this.
  17. David R

    David R Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm always a believer in the c*** up theory rather than the conspiracy theory. I am tended to believe that the answer does indeed lie in the "had to look good from a distance" leading to insufficient detail in the plans and a failure to plan the details!

    David R
     
  18. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    460
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Very comfortably early retired
    Location:
    1029
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer

    Called in on Friday - I think this is the chimney in question IMG_1846.JPG
     
    David R likes this.
  19. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    460
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Very comfortably early retired
    Location:
    1029
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    And the footbridge IMG_1845.JPG
     
    toplight likes this.
  20. Breva

    Breva Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    511
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    We had a day of planting lamp posts on Friday. We put in two more GWR replicas on platform 1. A final one remains to be planted. Its position is taken up by the carpenter's shed. Inside it is one of the Kingston on Thames streetlights we used to have, holding it up. When the shed comes down, in a week or two, we can take out the street lamp post, and replace it with a replica GWR one, the last one to go in at Broadway. Having purchased all the replica GWR lamp posts we need using our own specially made pattern, we are offering further examples for sale to outsiders, so if you need one for your railway, send me a pm. Any profits go to the railway.

    The two chimneys have had some very nice looking shuttering attached to the tops, made by one of the canopy gang. It will be used to create a cap of concrete, which will have a mix to make it resemble stone. We couldn't get genuine stone caps because of the long delivery delay, and the scaffolding needs to come down without undue delay. It should look very similar to the original though. It will even have a drip strip underneath!

    Finally the second layer of moulding has gone on the southern canopy end. It really looks good, a great replication effort. The moulding will be painted in dark stone, to create a darker triangle around the lighter T&G boards in the middle. The bottom part of the triangle will be the gutter, also in dark stone.

    IMG_4096.JPG IMG_4092.JPG IMG_4094.JPG
     
    17B, Gloucester Boy, weltrol and 7 others like this.

Share This Page