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GWSR Broadway Developments

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I don't suppose it's possible for a compromise whereby passive provision is made such that popping some more chimneys on at a later date (aesthetic only) is an option?
     
  2. 17B

    17B New Member

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    I was more referring to the design style than specific number of flues, afraid I couldn't find a decent picture of Toddington's double chimneys in my quick internet search.
     
  3. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    [​IMG]


    That one shows the single and a double flue together if that helps.
     
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  4. PaulK

    PaulK New Member

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    IMG_0620.JPG Here is another view of the Toddington canopy detail from the footbridge for comparison.
     
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  5. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I would imagine that the double chimney contains the flues from the ladies cloakroom and the gentlemen's. The single flue I am sure would be that from the Station Masters office.
     
  6. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    Here are Broadway's original chimneys.
    You can also see the canopy overhang supports as should be.

    Broadway chimneys.jpg
    Two doubles and a single for a 21m building - how many for a 37m one?
    In fact that horse has bolted, as the new design only has two chimney breasts, so two doubles is the most you could get.
    In the original design both were going to be dummies. One working fireplace was finally conceded (now in the cafe)
     
  7. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Brunel had nothing to do with the Honeybourne Line, it was not authorised until 1899.
    Amending the 2 chimneys that are being built to suit the original pattern wouldn't be too difficult (albeit I agree that it would have been easier to do it right first time).
     
  8. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Am I the only one who gets a sense that there are axes being ground, long standing grudges aired and any available fault found and blamed on peoples' personal 'public enemy no.1'?

    I find the personal and direct nature of some of the posting from some posters who have had a constant agenda on this subject disturbing. OK, I am 'an outsider' and maybe don't understand but we constantly hear one side, and my own experience of a recent visit to the GWSR was of a very smartly turned out and efficient Railway that impressed me greatly.

    Much complaint has been made of the fact that these issues were were not raised at the recent AGM - perhaps the reality is that they are not the major 'crimes against heritage' that some posters find them to the majority of those who actively support the GWSR and the Broadway extension.

    I for one look forward to being able to ride the full extension when open, inauthentic chimneys or not!

    This does not mean I am without understanding of the need to cherish heritage. In my experience, heritage can be a victim of expediency for completely valid and innocent reasons, but a small number of people in the key places having a regard for it can make all the difference without any arguments or unpleasantness. I can think of a few people in my experience who have been real champions of 'doing it right', who have done so quietly, without fanfare and in at least one case, not only without thanks but actually being the constant and on-going recipient of unjustified criticism and even slander, yet these few 'heritage heroes' are the ones who keep a quiet eye on 'doing things right' - and not by constant slagging off those they don't like on the internet!

    Steven
     
  9. 17B

    17B New Member

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    How many rooms does the new building have/will have?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. PaulK

    PaulK New Member

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    Yes it does matter that the foot bridge is too close to the station building for the following reasons:
    • The GWR design intent was to have the footbridge steps abut to the supports of the platform canopy extension which would allow passengers to remain under cover when moving from under the canopy and onto the footbridge.
    • The components for the canopy extension have already been manufactured by the loco Dept, the materials being paid for out of the canopy budget.
    • The angle of the steps is fixed by regulations that allow them to be used safely by the public. This in turn sets the distance that the bottom step is from the footbridge tower.
    • Given that the footbridge is approximately 6' or 2m too close to the station building (as stated in the GWSR blogs), this would result in the footsteps projecting 6' into the area under the canopy extension and hence impinging on the usable platform space in this area.
    • Tall passengers would also be in danger of banging their heads on the canopy end frame.
    In a reply to a comment on the GWSR Extension blog, the Project Manager stated that it was still intended to intergrate the footbridge steps into the platform canopy extension but no details have been given. I am intrigued how this will be done with the footbridge in its current position and I would be grateful if the Project Manager could explain a bit more and to include some drawings for ease of understanding.

    To my mind, the way forward would be to recast the footbridge tower foundations in the correct position and to then lift the bridge to the correct position using the crane that would be needed to install the footsteps and canopy extension. I am of cause concerned that funds and materials already used on building the canopy extension components will be wasted if not used.
     
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  11. ianh

    ianh Member

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    Put another way Steven..

    £1.33M was raised by the railway from enthuisiasts who believed that Broadway was the target... all the publicity pushs the heritage aspect of the Broadway renasiance, discussion was had about the modern design of the roof and the loco dept stept up and have built a stunning heritage copy ,in steel, of the previous design..... The signal box has wooden windows rather than UPVC, The S&T have designed and are working on a classic GWR station instalation.

    We have to remember Broadway is a Volunteer project, Volunteer led.... we had the first indictions in 2015 that all was not quite right but everything calmed and moved on ... we ahve to ensure now, this week, that the Vols understand that they are appreciated and that we, watching from the Interweb, are grateful for their dedication come rain or sun towards the goal of compleating Broadway in 2018,

    But it might be time to have a discussion ( and it always seems one sided) about the detail now that shouldnt be rushed that will make Broadway a stunning tribute to the dedication of the working Volunteeers and the Funders to ensure that nothing gets rushed and no detail is just taken for granted..

    Areas that i can see are, design provisions for the extended canopy to join into the footbridge steps... discussions on the chimney stacks, discussions on the pointing used over the windows, discussion on the style of interior plaster detail... design of the footbrodge steps.

    If any of this has costs - FFS say ---- from ground zero at Broadway if there was a need Bill said help and people stepped up.... we are all here to make Broadway a success.... thats a 110% success not a 90% success....

    Ian H
     
  12. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    The sad thing is with it is that clearly just from the information posted on this forum that the info on the small details are all available if you care to look.

    Take the chimneys for example:- I don't know the first thing about Bricklaying but just looking at the photos of the chimneys posted I can count the number of courses of brick, so I can see it is 12 courses, then it goes in a bit at angle then 8 courses, then it comes out for one course then back in for 2 courses, then corbelled out for 3 etc ... All that is needed is just for the people doing it to consult some old photos as they are working to think ? Now are we doing it correctly as it originally was ?

    I know it may be pedantic to some people, but you wouldn't restore a Spitfire, and then think, well that old Merlin Engine, lets just use a modern one and those elliptical wings, they are a bit hard so we will make them straight instead. You know it still flies and Mrs jones she won't notice.... Yes but it isn't what you intended it to be.
     
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  13. PaulK

    PaulK New Member

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    The members of the BAG have done a super human job in all weathers to create a new Broadway station from where only a small amount of rubble of the original remained, well done. Your efforts are very much appreciated and I hope you are not disheartened by questions regarding the final design details.
    Paul
     
  14. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    I agree that 'doing it right' is a subjective thing. Recreating history is a very high priority for some, less so for others. If the GWSR decide that a concrete bus shelter is good enough, well it's their railway.

    What's not so reasonable, it seems to me, is to say one thing and do another. To claim to value heritage, and benefit from the donations and voluntary labour that are given in response, while having no intention to choose the heritage option wherever feasible, is likely to provoke the strong emotions we've seen in this thread.

    Of course it's likely to be a misunderstanding. A 'living museum' probably means different things to different people. But there's an urgent need for the GWSR to clarify what its heritage policy really is, and how that policy will be implemented in practice.

    People get angry and resentful when they feel a contract has been broken. The best way to avoid that is to turn an unspoken contract into an explicit one. Then volunteers and donors are able to make informed choices and no-one gets hurt.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  15. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    If there is any soiled clothing to clean, please do it in private. We all know the damage this sort of thing caused to the reputation of another tourist railway. I am partial to a bit of schadenfreude as much as anyone but A. you should not indulge onlookers so and B. you ought to learn from the mistakes of others.

    PH
     
  16. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Just 4 comments:
    1. If like other share issues, I suspect the vast majority of the £1.33 million has not been raised from people who would describe themselves as dyed in the wool enthusiasts and the vast majority would need a careful explanation of 'chimneygate'.
    2. How much detail was included in the prospectus about the heritage nature of the design - full plans, showing a design which has not been adhered to, or artists impressions? If people who bought shares feel that the prospectus misrepresented what has been done, perhaps they should consider legal action, although if their disappointment is compared with what they thought or expected would be done, rather than what was actually included in the prospectus, they won't get very far!
    3. There are clearly some very unhappy posters here - did they raise their concerns at the AGM, prior to that with the Board or anywhere where it might actually achieve some change?
    4. Differences with a chimney are rather than different from changing the wings and engine on a Spitfire! I suspect many equivalent slight changes are made during a warbird restoration (which seems to involve basically building a new airframe in many cases), as they are during many other restorations, including steam locos and carriages - and railway buildings.
    Steven
     
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  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I appreciate that some folk feel strongly over this, but over exaggeration merely entrenches views. A single chimney instead of a double one is *not* equivilant to building a bus shelter, and seems a bit rude to the hard working volunteers building the station. It doesn't really add to the argument, more detracts from it.

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  18. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    A post naming an individual has been unapproved for moderation purposes, please avoid such practices .
     
  19. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Not being funny, but that chimney is not finished. What you are seeing on the top is the internal liner, which is required by the building regulations. I would assume that the brickies now need scaffolding to be constructed for them to carry on with the build.
     
  20. 17B

    17B New Member

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    I'd love to be proved wrong, and while your correct in that what is visible is the liner. The use of corbeled blue brick, implies that its the top capping. More likely that its awaiting a mortar flaunching (or ashlar stone cap) and chimney pot, in my opinion.
     

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