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Broadway Station Rebuild

Discussion in 'Heritage railways & Centres in the Uk' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. 17B

    17B New Member

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    Quite right.

    From what I'm reading it sounds like the project it be managed from multiple fronts, and with no detailed drawings or plans. Even just a decent set of scale setting out plans would of saved the whole footbridge issue.

    In an ideal world projects should always be managed by a single individual, be it Architect or Project Manager, and planned, detailed and specified before hand.
    I've done design by committee before, and it's a nightmare!

    Then you stand a fighting chance of the people on the ground knowing what they are building, with what materials and in what order. It might be a higher initial outlay in design fee's but will save errors on site, and enable tighter controls on material ordering and costs.

    As an aside point, if the chimney has been built to a 'freelance design' what was shown on your planning drawings?
    I'm sure it's unlikely to be a real problem, but be mindful, deviating from what you have consent for could potentially get into issues with the planners.



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  2. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Active Member

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    I understand, from what I've read on their blog etc, that the S&T Dept will do as much as they can to have signals operating sometime during 2018 but not necessarily at the opening in March. Regarding the chimneys (there should be 3 as per the original building) these can be fixed although I agree they should have been planned in from the beginning. I'm personally not that bothered but I recognise the heritage need to try and replicate the original design as closely as possible taking into account 21st Century requirements.
     
  3. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Does it matter if the building is too close to the bridge or whatever?

    Is it a case of the GWR would not have done it like that?
    Is it contravening Building Reg's or Planning permissions?
    Do any members of the intended public know or care about it being out of position?

    I say good on the Railway for rebuilding the station and extending the track like they have done.
     
  4. AndyY

    AndyY New Member

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    Surely that is missing the point?

    Preserved railways continue to exist, survive, develop and thrive because of two groups of people. The 'intended public', who I agree probably don't know or care, but who pay their fares, eat in the cafes etc. and provide the day-to-day income, and the railway enthusiasts who most certainly do know and care, who provide the bulk of the manpower and dig deeply into their pockets to fund the railway, its infrastructure and its locomotives and rolling stock.
    Without both of these groups of supporters preserved railways will wither and die.

    Andy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017 at 8:37 PM
  5. AndyY

    AndyY New Member

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    Somehow I'm not using the quote function correctly! In the above message, the first line is the quote, the rest is my reply, but I don't seem to be able to edit it as intended..................
    Andy
     
  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture

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    Is Broadway an conservation zone? if so what impact would that have had to the plans for the station, i would imagine at the very least the planning would have stipulated as close to an original building as possible if only to fit the character of the outlaying area so if someone is going against what was agreed on the heritage plan, might the railway find its self in trouble with the local council ? it all seems a bit like taking a very big risk, when to re create an authentic station would not have an time and cost penalty at this present stage, where if the railway were to be told at a future date your station fails to meet the full criteria as agreed, it could be very expensive if some parts have to be rebuilt.
     
  7. toplight

    toplight New Member

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  8. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

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    I think I have found the inspiration for the white filling on the window arches at Broadway. The arches of the Great Mosque at Cordoba, a wonder of the Muslim world. Has the Broadway team been infiltrated by Al Queda? I think we should be told.

    Picture 1104.jpg
     
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  9. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler New Member

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    Seems to be rather a lot of white filling there. ;):D:eek:
     
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  10. rolage2

    rolage2 New Member

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    A major objective of any museum or heritage organisation should be to inspire curiosity and educate. Certainly the paying public will turn up for a train ride but surely it is to be hoped that many will be inspired to learn about such a significant and historically important body as the GWR through interaction with the structures and practices they left behind or ones that are recreated. I made several share purchases in the belief that the GWSR supported a strongly heritage vision for the Broadway extension as I'm sure did many others - not least the volunteers who are working so hard to ensure authentic detail is observed. I am amazed that all this effort can be undermined by 'personal' decisions by individuals with key functions on site. The apparently deliberate, incorrect positioning of the footbridge and the insensitive permanent siting of ugly containers will seem inexplicable to many who funded the share offer. Hopefully the 'management' will exercise proper control over the remainder of the construction work such as any platform 2 building and ensure that the appearance of incongruous structures that blight other stations on the line is avoided.
     
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  11. toplight

    toplight New Member

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    When station buildings are built at the GWR they seem to time and again to just build something freelance which is only vaguely similar to either the original buildings or original GWR designs, no ideas why. ? and clearly many of their own members don't support this approach. For my own project I have been to the NRM to look and get copies of the original GWR coach drawings to get the full information on dimensions and how things were done originally, also inspecting original parts and other coaches so the crucial details are done correctly and as close as I can to the original way. Why can't they do the same with the buildings. ?


    I am sure somewhere (NRM search Engine ?), they will have original drawings of the Broadway buildings especially as they were of the same basic designs as others on the line and on other parts of the GWR network. They also have both Toddington and Gotherington stations which are the same basic design to check to see closely exactly how things were done originally.


    Perhaps the people working on the Broadway station should make regular trips to take a look at Gotherington and Toddington buildings before they start on each separate part of the build. I expect for example with the chimneys that they were just built by someone in a style they thought looked okay but with no reference to any originals or original drawings.


    Preservation should be about recreating as closely as we can the original trains, buildings etc, otherwise what is the point of doing it ? You might as well just build everything in a modern way. The aim should be to turn the clock back as much as you can for that item or build new but to the original spec.
     
  12. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

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    In March 2015 as this BBC article shows a recruitment fair was held to recruit volunteer tradesmen to build the new station at Broadway.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32002327

    This artists impression was used to inspire those volunteers to give up three years unpaid work to achieve the new Station.

    Broadway Station Frederick Lea.jpg

    In summer 2015 Alan Bielby already Chairman of the GWSR PLC, was appointed Project Manager at Broadway, and in September 2015 the foundations of the station were set out and dug. The foundations for the footbridge followed.

    So if Broadway turns out looking nothing like the picture that was used to inspire dozens of volunteers, or indeed almost 1.3 million quid in shares, the conclusion
    can only be that one person was responsible. The Project Manager at the time the foundations were set out.

    Not that it would do any good for shareholders to complain at the AGM. The agenda for that is controlled by the Chairman Alan Bielby.
     
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  13. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Are we heading for a re-run of the WSRA saga?
     
  14. rolage2

    rolage2 New Member

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    The wooden framework being added to the canopy looks to be rather lightweight compared to Toddington on which I had assumed it is being modelled. Does this mean that the heavy moulding at the base of the vertical boards will not be attached? If the moulding is absent the appearance of the canopy would be greatly diminished and significantly different from the original. Does anyone know what is 'planned'.
     
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  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Thanks for posting that picture, does that explicitly show any of the contentious design changes proposed or built? I genuinely don't know, knowing so little about it, but it would be good to compare to that fantastic artist's impression that, as you say, inspired so many people.
     
  16. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    No. Please no!
     
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  17. 17B

    17B New Member

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    [​IMG]
    As built.

    [​IMG]
    As artists impression.

    [​IMG]
    GWR original, which is the same as Toddington.




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  18. Breva

    Breva Member

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    The canopy end framework being added is lightweight. This point has been raised by heritage minded people.
    No visits to Toddington to look were made. Hall Green, Henley in Arden, Shirley are all the same. It's easy to find out how it was done.
    We can only guess at whether the heavy mouldings will be included.
     
  19. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

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    Broadway Demolition.jpg

    Well using this detailed picture of the actual Broadway station, take your rubber and eliminate the chimneys, then the spear fencing, then the roof extension to the footbridge, then the down pipe. Looks a bit plain doesn't it, but no matter, with your colouring pens make the bricks red and the cement in the arches bright white. Yes just that bit.

    That noise you can hear is Isambard Kingdom Brunel turning in his grave.
     
  20. Breva

    Breva Member

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    The artists impression is no more than that, an artist who guessed what it might look like. You should not take it as a design. I spoke to the artist about the canopy overhang and pointed out that it was wrong, but he preferred not to get involved with design issues.

    The artist subsequently di produce an ammended impression with the (different) HIA footbridge, and where the wrong support for the canopy overhang was removed.

    17B's B&W image is that of the single chimney at the end of the former Broadway building. It contained a flue for a single end room. The correct chimneys were doubles (two others, not shown in the B&W picture), as they contained flues for two rooms each. Only the end one was a single.

    It is not correect to say 'GWR original, which is the same as Toddington'. Toddington's single chimney was demolished, and today only its stump remains. the main chimneys were doubles. Think principle: How many fireplaces (flues) would be right for a 37m building?
     

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