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GWSR Broadway Developments

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Despite having wet weather towards the end of the day on Wednesday, it appears that the Broadway rebuild team are still progressing well (I guess for a very good reason...time is ticking!) and the Broadway Station building structure is looking close to completion from what I can see from the blog (see link). Some fine work also being done on the roof trusses which are being made on site at Toddington. Also good to see clearance work starting immediately north of Broadway platforms in readiness for ballast delivery. Super stuff!

    http://broadwaystationgroup.blogspot.co.uk/
     
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  2. Gloucester Boy

    Gloucester Boy New Member

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    Will be about 15 miles from Broadway to Cheltenham.

    With regard to the slip, I have just received a letter from Chris Bristow, The Finance Director of GWSR, stating "that the probable cost is £400,000 whereas our original estimate was £80,000 Using the reserves we have maintained for just such an eventuality and generous support from the GWRT means we will get through this, but it also means that we absolutely need the rest of the £250,000 by 30th April".

    I notice that the GWSR website is now showing £1,052,000 now subscribed, so the amount needed is now less than £200,000.

    I have sent a couple of applications in the post, every little helps!
     
  3. Peter29

    Peter29 New Member

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    Broadway-Cheltenham Racecourse = 13 miles 72 chains (22.37 km). Current plan is a journey time of 54 mins for the 2 train TT, and 74' south/61' north for a 3 train TT.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
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  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    What service frequency does that give? I'm guessing every hour with a three train service and potentially every 80 minutes with a two train service would be pretty robust, given those timings, but not much less?

    Tom
     
  5. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    No doubt the GWSR board have thought of this but will a 2 train service meet the demands of increased passenger numbers? As Tom and the Bluebell found out very quickly. The extension to East Grinstead increased passenger figures. SVR extension to Kidderminster boosted figures. A tourist honey pot like Broadway would surely give the same result.
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    On the 3 train T/T they are slow trains unless the station stops are lengthy.
     
  7. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    IIRC I think Toddington and possibly Winchcombe stops are more than just a few mins. All I've seen so far are how many trains are running and what type on a particular day, apparently actual timetables will be put on our HOPS soon so us humble foot soldiers can have a peep.

    As it says in the latest Cornishman, we can only really guess as to how Broadway will change operations, and naturally it'll take a few years to find the perfect arrangements. As TTIs we've been told in the last few years not to bother passenger counting as the commercial department pretty well know by now how people use our trains, I suspect that'll be reintroduced next year so we can have a handle as to what's happening.
     
  8. Gloucester Boy

    Gloucester Boy New Member

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    Many thanks for the accurate distance.
     
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  9. Steve1015

    Steve1015 Member

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    Who says there will be an increase in passenger figures when you get to Broadway?
    Where are these people coming from? Broadway? Are these extra passengers coming from Broadway? I doubt itIt looks like a large village/small town to me and if you look at Goole maps its in the middle of nowhere.
    I find it very difficult to see where the increase in passenger numbers are coming from (well enough to cover the costs of an extra xx miles of running railway).
    If you look at the "Big players/most popular" railways.
    Paignton = Holiday / tourist day tripper area
    WSR = Holiday / tourist day tripper area
    SVR = Birmingham on its doorstep
    NYMR = Holiday / tourist day tripper area
    Swanage = Holiday / tourist day tripper area
    KWVR = Holiday / tourist day tripper area

    Unfortunately whilst the area for GWR is a holiday/tourist its not as big in numbers by far than those mentioned above.

    Also I find it very odd that TTI's are being told not to bother with passenger counting as "commercial department pretty well know by now how people use our trains".

    The above is not a criticism of the railway but just observations....and am more than happy to be proved wrong.
     
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  10. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    You do realise that Broadway is a hugely popular tourist destination? I think that you have underestimated its pull, certainly on a local level it's a bit of a tourist hotspot and I don't think I share your fears on that basis.
     
  11. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Broadway village attracts around 750,000 visitors every year, so a presumed increase in passenger numbers is fair.

    As for passenger counting - well what's the point when they've been the same for years, they were used to determine if it was worthwhile running particular trains etc. But someone's got to collate all that information and compare it to previous years, which is a waste of that volunteer's time if we learn no more. As I said, I fully expect that we'll be doing it again for some time once we reach Broadway.

    EDIT - a 20% increase of 20,000 visitors is predicted, although as our commercial director notes in the Cornishman "my crystal ball is doubly cloudy!"

    Further edit - I believe timetables have been designed to make a day out at Broadway starting at Cheltenham feasible, so also a potential increase in passenger numbers ROM the Cheltenham end who want to go to Broadway. Linking "the jewel of the Cotswolds" with the "gateway to the Cotswolds" by steam railway ought to be pretty easy to market!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  12. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Broadway is not called the Jewel of the Cotswolds for nothing.
     
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  13. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    I think there are two questions :

    1 - How many of those tourists who visit Broadway by car will walk as far as the station (which is some way from the centre of the village) and travel on (as opposed to look at) the train?
    2 - How many people will park at Cheltenham or Toddington and do the longer round trip? - at least the railway will be going from nowhere to somewhere when they get to Broadway rather than the current nowhere to nowhere ride.

    I guess too that there will be a market for coach tours which include a Toddington or Cheltenham R C - Broadway single journey in their itinerary
     
  14. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Absolutely, and of course we'll only have a real answer to those questions once we start running. You mention 1 way coach trips, this is already quite common on the railway, and number of coach parties in general is the main reason we're extending the rakes to 8 coaches.
     
  15. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    I believe the GWSR anticipates an increase of around 20%. Broadway, as I've said before, is one of the most visited places in the Cotswolds area (my parents used to live there so I'm familiar with the village which is within easy reach of Evesham) and, unlike some of the places on your list, is a year round tourist area, although there are more visitors in the summer period. It is a year-round tourist destination, many visitors are American, possibly because of the name! The Cotswolds attracts the equestrian set and some visitors have considerable spending power. I fully agree that the GWSR isn't in the same league as the NYMR but the 2 lines offer different experiences. (Both superb.)

    The problem, in my view, is going to be handling the masses of visitors at Broadway and also looking after bewildered Nat. Pres. followers who have turned up out of curiosity because they can't believe such things are possible. Broadway is nowhere near Goole by the way.
     
  16. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Two very good questions, except that Cheltenham Race Course which isn't really "nowhere." In fact, as I'm sure you know, in mid March it's the centre of the universe for many!
     
  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Are you sure that those interested are not travelling on the line already? W.I.B.N.is very seductive.

    PH
     
  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    One thing that has to be clear, and that is you have to know your market and how to attract it, Broadway is a tourist magnet, that much is known, Cheltenham not so much unless there is something of note happening at the racecourse, when it becomes an attraction in its own right, so the trick is marketing the railway from the Broadway end, when the attraction is Cheltenham racecourse, and marketing the delights of Broadway at other times , The Cheltenham festival for instance is one option but you are talking a very well healed clientel, so fine dining may be one option run an evening all first class dining trains during the festival, with Broadway as its destination at other times you need to market what each destination can offer, the problem with any extension is you have to earn money from it, either by the attraction itself, or by attracting custom that might not normally be attracted. but you have to do your homework, just hoping if we extend the visitors will come, is to high a risk these days,
     
  19. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    This list looks carefully selected to support the argument. Where are:

    Bluebell
    Mid-Hants
    East Lancs
    Great Central?

    Are these not also big and popular? For that matter, I'm not sure I'd place the KWVR in a holiday area. Have you ever been to Keighley? I'd suggest that Broadway has just as much tourist pull as Haworth.
     
  20. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    Indeed - and I have enjoyed many corporate hospitality days there in March and November during my working life! However, when there's no racing, it's pretty much nowhere!
     

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