GWSR Broadway Developments

I must say, I had interpreted the Broadway signal man problem as more the fact you need everything operational before you can complete training, and training signalmen is no short task. I did hear it said a couple of years ago that signalman training courses were booked out until the middle of 2017, it just takes a while to get folk through with all the safety etc. Either way, it was still a good idea to get the signal box done, so S&T could start doing their bit, and it was a relatively small complete item to do that could be completed reasonably early on to show off what we're aiming for in general (and to perhaps allay fears over more boxes a la CRC...)

Paying just for a single line embankment seems very sensible to me too given the extra cost. As far as I'm aware we should still be on target for opening good Friday 2018 despite the embankment problems, as long as we get the £1.25million. double track is very much a nice to have, and double tracking Toddington to Broadway is quite unlikely anyway due to the viaduct and safety issues there. All it means is the potential bit of double track for a few hundred yards past the station are less likely to happen, which was a very much WIBN as it wouldn't even serve much operational purpose, and hasn't been on the short term agenda for some time now anyway due to cost.

In short, all that's changed is that track laying schedules have been shuffled about a bit, and the delightful Broadway signal box won't be in use immediately, but still looking lovely. Also worth remembering that Broadway won't be finished when we get there anyway, there will still p2 to do, and probably a footbridge to finish, and whatever happens with the car park, I suspect what we come up with in 2018 won't be final.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it the current solution for the embankment is to shave off the upper part of the sides to create a shallower angle. The effect of this is to reduce the width on top to that required for a single track. Would it not be possible to lower the solum by, say, half a metre and spread the material down the sides to create the shallower angle? I hope that I have described that as clearly as I can; it's the sort of thing that is far easier to draw than to describe in text. As for the suggestion of soil nailing, would soil "freezing" not be a possible approach? It does seem that the quality of the GWR earthworks on its extension from Honeybourne to Cheltenham was not that of its earlier works.

 

I'm afraid I've no idea about your suggestions, but you're quite right the earthworks on our line were definitely not of the same quality as earlier lines! The GWR and BR certainly had their problems with slips as well, so hardly a new problem. At least we've got a much better idea of drainage than BR certainly did, I believe our gang have found many more culverts than were on the BR diagrams!

 

One of the problems with that part of the Honeybourne Line formation in GWSR ownership is that it runs largely parallel to the base of the Cotswold Limestone escarpment, the geology here being Lias clay which is not the most stable of rock types. The GWR was in a hurry at the turn of the 20th Century to build this cut-off line to counter the Midland Railway's Birmingham-Gloucester route and to prevent the MSWJR building a line north from Andoversford Jct towards Birmingham. So, in hindsight, better earthworks might have been a wiser investment. That said, UK railways do suffer from landslips and crumbling embankments all the time; some are luckier in that they run over or through more stable rock. I fully concur with the remarks regarding drainage; the GWSR drainage team website/blog shows the tremendous work being done and is far more interesting than its title might suggest!

 

I am astonished that the box cannot be opened in 15 months time due to a shortage of signalmen. The GWSR has only 2 boxes which need manning - Toddington and Winchcombe (Cheltenham Racecourse is effectively just a long siding and Gotherington is rarely if ever open), so one would have thought that manning a third should not present too much of a challenge.

How long does it take to train a signalman? Aren't there people around who would be keen to learn and man a new (proper) signalbox?

 

Moving material from the top to the sides will only further impede the drainage.
Shaving the top, reprofiling and use of geotextiles will enable the drainage to work as it should.
Soil nailing will stabilise the slopes as long as protection is provided for areas were the drainage outfalls onto the ground before it reaches the drainage system.

 

CRC always has a signalman too, just for the record. I think the 15 month timescale is irrelevant because presumably there's at least part of the fairly lengthy signalman training that can only be done once everything is operational. And of course you can't just train a couple of people when we rely on volunteers, you'll need a good few trained up before you can rely on at least one being available all the time, which takes even longer of course. I'm sure it'll all be done as quickly as possible - after all, if it was possible to be done earlier then why hasn't training begun already? Must be a good reason, even if I don't know!

 

If I remember correctly from one of the previous major repairs, the main problem is that the core of the embankments is made with a clay type material that has not gelled with the base material. I am certain that there was a photo of the clay being peeled off the ground by hand during the repair. The line was closed by BR because of the continuous failure of the embankments.

 

Presumably your signalmen - or at least some of them - are passed for several 'boxes along the line? I wonder if you are over-stating the length of time it will take to train signalmen to work specifically at Broadway - clearly, passing out a fully-trained signalman to work a new 'box is less time consuming than training a new signalman from scratch. In any case, one assumes that there is a degree of crew familiarisation built into the schedule, between the point of the nominal "golden spike" ceremony and the actual formal opening?

I looked back at when the Bluebell opened to East Grinstead: the actual point at which rails extended the whole way from East Grinstead to Sheffield Park was late in the evening on March 7th 2013 (when an incoming GBRF class 66 went right through); the formal "golden spike ceremony" was 8th March; the first loco crew familiarisation trips were done on 16th March and the extension was opened to the public on 23rd March - only 16 days after the rails were first temporarily joined. From a loco point of view, not every footplateman had been passed out for EG by 23 March, but sufficient had to run the service and train up the others.

Tom

 

No idea - ask one of our signalman!

 

Surely the training can be done on a "horses for courses" basis. The level of competence needed to work the Broadway box (until it becomes a through line to Honeybourne) is hardly on a par with Severn Bridge Junction or even the GWSR boxes at Toddington and Winchcombe. Surely it will essentially be like Cheltenham Race Course? I accept that numbers of signallers have to be found but would not training for these "end boxes" be the first step up to the "mid-line boxes"?

 

CRC is certainly the first rung on the training ladder, and I'd assume operation at Broadway must be fairly similar. Beyond that though, I refer you to my previous answer, ask a signalman!

 

A lot of uninformed stuff has been posted on here about Broadway box I have to say. The facts are these (and the blog is not quite right) as far as I know:
1. AIUI Broadway box won't open in 2018 because the S&T works won't all be ready in time. That helps the signalman position which is also a problem as it rightly says but it was not the primary reason so I'm told.
2. Fully trained signalmen on Broadway box and track circuit block working could be provided for the opening day in 2018 if required (it's very basic layout although the block system is new to the railway). But enough to man all the GWR's boxes day after day after day with a reasonable confidence you can deliver the service? You need to appreciate that Broadway box will need to open every day the railway runs just to run an engine round a train - that increases the total number signalling turns to be covered annually by 35%. Put another way - another 16 signalmen needed to maintain a realistic level of cover across the line so there's confidence a service can be run. There's little in the way of paid staff cover for holes in the roster unlike other railways. And the more turns you have the more likely you have short notice cover problems (illness, family problems, car accident etc). Manual boxes are the achilles heel of running a regular service which is why they were rationalised on the network. Finding key staff like signalmen to operate the level of service day in day out is a weekly miracle particularly round holiday time. Before the Chicken Curve slip, there was around 400 annual signalling turns to cover, there are now 675. Broadway will take it over 900. That has taken a huge amount of unseen commitment and hard work in the signalling department to deliver with a few people going above and beyond to do it.
3. In order to provide the 4 round trips from Broadway on the peak timetable, 3 trains will be required - that will require Gotherington box to be open additionally as well so 5 boxes in use whereas only 3 are required now. Getting difficult now....
4. Operationally a box at Broadway isn't needed - 2018 and after will run quite happily with the train crew operated ground frame relocated from Laverton.
5. Who do you think trains new signalmen? People giving up their time to do so that's who. Senior signalmen. How many trainees do you think can be supported in the system at once? About 3-4 off the street rookies each year. Try matching trainee availability with that of trainers. The GWR has been going flat out training for the last few years. Don't forget people drop out each year too - move away, change jobs, get too old etc. Some find they aren't suited to it so we need to have better selection. Some people just don't like being an instructor - can't make them. It's all voluntary. Hopefully we'll get some more experienced signallers joining that can be fast tracked.
6. Increasing the number of signalmen by 35% means 35% more exams to do, regular competence assessments to do, records to manage, admin, people issues to deal with. Then there's training to organise, rooms to find and training materials to produce. Who does all that? Yes - a volunteer. Unseen late at night slaving away at their PCs. It's a defined safety critical role under ROGS. Everything has to be documented, managed and backed up by evidence same as on the network. Remember a volunteer Inspector is putting their neck on the block every time they sign to say someone is competent. Without all that backroom work the railway won't run. Simples. Is that enjoyable? Is it stressful? Would they prefer to be in a box signalling trains?
7. ROGS changed everything - the bar has had to be raised on training and competence. Standards are much higher than in the past.
8. The GWR runs an annual training programme. Classroom training starts in December and January followed by practical box training starting March - providing you pass your exams you will expect to pass out in October or more likely December.
9. As a general trend across heritage railways and all voluntary organisations, volunteers on average have less availability these days. Lots of competing demands on people's time.
10. We've ended up with a lovely box being built at Broadway which we don't actually need to run the timetable, yet poor old Toddington box, the most important on the whole line is in a very poor state - slates missing off roof, rotten windows, pointing fallen out despite the signalmen's best efforts inside.
11. The railway has no training room or training facilities. Yet. Not just about running trains - you need support facilities.
12. Broadway will join Cheltenham as a training box. Hopefully it can be used as Training Facility/Room as soon as it can be handed over.

Whilst it's nice to see, I just don't think building more and more signal-boxes to staff is the smartest move long term if the number of volunteers or more important the time they are able to give declines in the future. Other than that, it's more paid staff to provide the cover and fill in the gaps. I'm sure the department will find some way to provide staff for the box in 2019. A little understanding might not go amiss however.

 

Very interesting. Now what is it I have been saying about "extension fever" and its leading to the need to maintain what is already rhere being forgotten?

PH

 

Thanks for that informed reply, much better than anything I could manage - always good to have someone in the know!

I don't think the rest of the railway has been neglected Paul, although it is unfortunate Toddington Box has been. Since the first Broadway share issue was being finalised, CRC P2 has been built, a carriage paint shop has been brought into use, the steam loco shed has had a concrete floor, we're getting a completely new building at Winchcombe to replace the wooden elf centre, and a new S&T workshop is imminent. None of which is much consolation to a Toddington signalman, but it shows that our Broadway extension is hardly sucking all of our resources to the detriment of everywhere else.

 

No, it is just a symptom. Other places wake up to find they have a trackwork problem, or a locomotive crisis, both because the emotional appeal of "the extension" swamps any assessment of what their financial and human resources really are.

Paul H

 

I'm more than happy to be corrected by 46229 but, from what I saw when I visited the GWSR last year, Toddington Box was undergoing some refurbishment. However, as I don't visit as often as I'd like, I'll happily be corrected, especially as 46229 has detailed knowledge of the signalling programme etc. I 'm certain there is a training room available at Toddington but perhaps not for signalling classes. Again, put me right if necessary.

Regarding PH's comments.....no comment!

 

Being involved in a current railway extension I can see both sides. There is nothing like an extension to get your supporters enthused, but the reality is that they are like bottomless pits when it comes to money. Inevitably resources are diverted towards the expanding head of steel, but there can be benefits to the whole railway. For example we realised we needed a Road Railer Vehicle to build the extension, and this has found many uses on the existing railway. When the tamper came in we were able to attend to some of the running line as well. The extension has pushed us to renew the level crossing, which has been "on the list" for a good few years, and we ended up changing the 4 gate system to a more authentic (and award winning!) two gate system. These are just a few examples off the top of my head.

However, extensions are a steep learning curve and will always take longer than you think, and will always cost more than you envisage. Inevitably there will be a period of consolidation after. For any line there is also the hoped-for "snowball" effect where more volunteers and passengers come through the door. There will always be an initial "bounce" in numbers but it has to be sustainable for the long term.

Oh yes, and some of our signalbox windows need repairing too!

Regards

Matt

 

Don't get me wrong. Money has been spent on other parts of the line as has been said - the door was renewed at Toddington box last year (which still needs a lot doing to it) but I was just trying to get the point across that there's more to running a railway that first meets the eye.