Brighton Atlantic: 32424 Beachy Head

Well not really just making a point, I wasn't planning on making this a conversation in itself.

But I suppose you couldn't resist speaking out against such a blasphemous comment against your unquestionable logic now, could you~?

In any case, I will not speak on it further, I made my point. Though if you wish to go on with this further, by all means do so...

 

The GCR wouldn't be a bad spot for such an event, but really if your planning that many years down the road, why not wait another year when Prince of Wales is due to be complete? I know the completion could change of course, but I feel the group's trach record at the moment is as such that you could have a fair good bet it'll be ready by their predicted time frame. I'd love to see them all lined up together too, show all what has been achieved new build locomotive wise.

 

Or you from prolonging it yet more

 

Points well made Tom, and love the picture by the way. Would it be fair to assume that at least one person has given thought to recreating this picture when the new Beachy Head is completed? I reckon it would get you alot of income photo charter wise.

 

Possibly, though I imagine the loco will be facing the wrong way round to recreate that photo.

Tom

 

More "Bluebell General" then specifically 32424, but with mainline charters now a reality, wasn't there talk of a turning facility in any event?

 

Yes, bit it seems to be back burner at the moment. The proposed triangle between the mainline and Ardingly line at Horsted Keynes wouldn't fit (too tight a radius, and too much difference in levels between the mainline, descending at 1 in 75, and the Ardingly descending at 1 in 60). A turntable is a possibility, but seems to be a low priority given the major cost and other more pressing demands on capital.

Tom

 

Tom will confirm, but I believe that some of the axleboxes to be used in the tender are genuine LB&SCR, recovered from an old tender used as a snowplough and then used as part of a new-build tender to go with the non-working replica Dean Single which was displayed at the GWR Windsor & Eton station. I doubt if the tender came from 32424, however.

As for the boiler I recall some comments made by one of the Beachy Head team at the Bluebell that externally you'd have to be "A pretty good gricer" (his words) to discern from the outside that it was an ex-GNR boiler as opposed to ex-LB&SCR. I gather there is one difference of 12 inches - it may be one dimension of the firebox, but I'm quoting from memory and happy to be corrected if wrong. Call it rebuild, replica or whatever, the net result will certainly be quite a stunning loco. I just wish that I could manage to time my visits to the Bluebell to coincide with the open days at Atlantic House. I'm really frustrated not to have seen the latest progress at first hand.

 

I recall - perhaps incorrectly - that the tender was from a C2X class?

It's virtually identical from the outside in dimensions with only detail differences (such as the smokebox door) really needing changing to make it look like the later LBSCR type. The backhead, superheater header (I think) and a few other bits are different but can be changed and will reflect the LBSCR locomotive.

I have always maintained it was a shame both boilers could not be saved - but I am glad that one boiler went to this project, as much as I am an LNER man.

Recreating a lost class and genuine companion for no.251 - so we can see how one locomotive design could be used on multiple railways with detail differences - is a very good thing for our movement indeed.

And who hasn't wanted to see an Atlantic locomotive in steam?

 

Two different tenders:

http://departmentals.com/photo/70183
From a C2X 0-6-0, latterly used as a water carrier at Guildford. This was then used in the "Royalty and Empire" exhibition at Windsor and, when surplus to requirements there, was scrapped. Fortunately the wheel sets and parts of the axle boxes (which had been modified by Madame Tussauds to grind off the LBSCR detail on the axle box covers) survived and will be used for Beachy Head.

http://departmentals.com/photo/ADS3202
From a B4 4-4-0. Latterly used as a mobile load bank with the centre wheel set removed. This was purchased by the "Manston" group as a possible tender underframe for their loco, but subsequently sold on and will form the underframe for Beachy Head's tender, slightly modified. Interestingly, this one had the tender number 424.

There are sundry other bits from a variety of sources, particularly around the braking system, as well as the regulator handle from the original locomotive.

Tom

 

A lone Woodham's tender survived the 'black hole' of the South Wales steelworks? Now that is noteworthy in itself!

 

The superheater header is different, though I doubt too many people will ever see it! As the original boiler didn't have one, a new one has been cast, representative of the final pattern fitted (they varied over the life of the locos).

One of the main differences on the back head is that I believe that the steam supply for auxiliaries (injectors, brake etc) on the GN locos came from a manifold on the backhead, but on the LBSCR locos came from a direct take off within the dome for each separate requirement; Beachy Head will replicate the LBSCR style. Overall, the boiler is in good condition, but apart from the modifications above (and, in due course, new tubes and flues etc) it has had some small patches of replacement plate work welded in the outer firebox shell around the mudhole doors which had corroded, and some refacing of various flanges (such as where the dome cover fits) and for backhead fittings which had deteriorated in its time out of use.

Tom

 

Once again, one has to ask why the second C1 boiler was scrapped? Was it not in a reusable condition?

 

Have a bad feeling the LBSCR moneybags stripped it for spares, they were really GNR spares boilers. The nrm specimens will never run again, sadly.
Money is the prime driver in preservation away from the museums. You could argue, that none museum preservation is simply big kids playing with toys, and much of it is left derelict, as there is not the time/resources/ money now, there'll be less in 20years, clear it up now?
We'll also need a GNR 4-6-2 replica when 'Scotsman' hangs up her nrm gloves, perhaps with the next overhaul?

 

Moneybags? Maybe both boilers were in such a state that it was a case of making one good out of two bad. We don't know whether 251 or Henry Oakley will ever run again or not. Nothing is definite.

I'd argue railways like the Bluebell do far more for preservation than the NRM, and have advocated the latter's collection being dispersed for restoration/overhaul (in the majority of cases).

 

MAybe I'm a cynic. They have the ex DVLR/SECR 6 wheeled brake van derelict for many decades- it would no doubt be a delight at the DVLR if they loaned it out. Where it is, it will never be restored. (although perhaps I'm trying to provoke them to!)

 

DVLR? Derwent Valley?