Bluebell Northern Extension - so what's occurring then?

I'm sure the many hundreds of contributors to the various northern extension funds would appreciate an update seeing as the official webpage was last updated on December 12th 2011 - over 2 months ago. The last time I suggested that official communications on the project have been poor the webmaster had a hissy fit and took his ball home. I don't know why the Bluebell seems to be posessed of this culture of minimal dissemination on a "need to know basis" because it is counterproductive.
Updates are vital even when theere is little to report because it shows the those expressing interest are valued, and it is clear that a lot has happened in the interveing two months even if the groundworks have stopped. Imagine all those who gave "Tenners for the Tip" as christmas presents after watching Nick Owen's appeal now 7 weeks later still haven't heard a goddammed thing about what their money will be used for? Like many others I should not need to join esoteric interest groups or social networking sites to follow progress on this project , but like some others I will now direct my funds towards the Gloucester and Warwickshire, and the RVR - whose need - and gratitude - seems to be on another level.
I anticipate another offended backlash from Bluebell members - but sadly that will only prove my point.

 

I was also thinking it was time for an update ( as a contributor during the "double-up" job last year) so a quick look back into the Bluebell Archive reveals the last information on 12th December, as mentioned above by domeyhead:

"The site will now be shut down until the New Year. An assessment will be made early in 2012 to determine what further waste needs to be removed before Landfill Tax becomes applicable.
Meanwhile other preparatory work for the completion of the Northern Extension Project will commence."

So yes, we are certainly beyond "early in 2012" by now.

Not a criticism, just a polite request for an update, even if nothing much has actually happened.

regards.

 

I concur with 46118. The only news I have heard (as a small donater not as a Bluebell Railway member or volunteer so its not much) is that the Bluebell Railway is to apply for planning permission from Mid- Sussex District Council to construct a double arch bridge at Sherriff Mill, just west of the current railhead on the Ardingly Branch from Horsted Keynes. This bridge would replace the long-demolished viaduct and the new embankment would use some of the clay capping from the Northern Extension. More clay capping would also be used in the construction of the triangle near Horsted Keynes.
So I guess plans are well ongoing to use the material that can be re-used from the Northern extension but I presume what most people are really interested in, and supportive of, is the remaining landfill waste at Imberhorne and how soon this will be shifted out.
One of the blessings and curses of modern information systems such as this internet thingy is that its great for sending out updates and, when regular updates are received, people will tend to be even more supportive, even if the update is something like "well, not much going on on the ground yet folks but rest assured your team is all over this... etc etc."
The downside is that rumour and flim-flam information, especially about some new railway schemes of locomotive new build schemes say much but actually show you very little. The Bluebell is a world leader and cannot be counted among the latter. However, we are curious and want to know because we want to see trains running south from East Grinstead again.

 

My crystal ball tells me they have discovered that much of the remaining material to be excavated is suitable for a triangle embankment but they don't have planning permission for that. There's a mad rush to get PP so that most of the remaining material can be moved by the Rly. kept on site and not double handled.

Am I right?

 

Talking about removing the waste thats left, assuming that its going to be dumped at HK, how many train loads would it take , I assume that the wagons can be loaded to their maximum for this as long as it doesnt involve going onto NR but how would it be done? would the waste be moved out of the way so that a tempory track to join up with the southern end be laid first then the spoil loaded up, or would it be done by the bluebells own wagons from the southern end extending the track till they join up the railheads ?

 

Martin, steady on old chap, you are asking for pretty much the complete "modus operandii". Until the Bluebell provide a further update no-one on Nat Pres is likely to be able to tell you in detail how the operation to remove the clay capping is going to be undertaken.

Presumably people are working on planning the next stage of the operation, and hopefully we will find out in due course.

 

Isn't there something on the website about trackwork at Kingscote being remodelled ready for running trains through to East Grinstead?

Kind regards,

Dan

 

There has been a small update on Philpot web site.

Imberhorne Cutting Removal - Page 5

 

ignore - link didnt work but does now

 

From what I understand at the moment they are working on Kingscote track work and signalling so it is ready for through trains and obtaining planning permision for the remaining spoil to be moved to Horsted Keynes so create the triangle. On facebook recently I think it was said that the triangle will be only off of the Ardingly branch as the curve would be too tight to use the Sheffield Park line. If the tip has not been surveyed yet I guess it must be done soon in order for any final trains needed to run before the end of next month. From what I understand not much is planned for this time of the year because of the weather, I assume things will start to pick up again soon. Maybe someone with more information will post soon.

There is lots of good information on Facebook, although I understand not everyone wants to use it. I keep up with Bluebell and RVR, Midsomer Norton and a few others using it. Updates most days, easy to do for the people who give there free time to update it as well I would guess.

 

Lookng at the images on the linked website, it is difficult to judge just how much material is waste that needs removing to landfill, and how much can be reused at HK for the embankment and triangle. As philw2 mentions above, maybe the Bluebell feel that most of what is left can be reused at HK.
Perhaps it is now more a question of "re-arranging" what is left rather than moving to landfill. Wasn't there also a comment last year that they want to take the eventual new railway more to the opposite side of the cutting to the Council depot, and again that is a question of "re-arranging"?
No doubt much planning is going on in the background, without the necessity to actually start moving material around at this stage.

 

Bearing in mind any waste has to have substantial and stable capping round it, and looking at Robert Philpott's latest pictures I'd surmise there is at least another week of trains required. I'm guessing that it is not an option to move the waste southwards even if the intention was to bury it again, so it has to be reburied onsite or removed to Appleford. Glad to be proved wrong of course but I'm tired of the usual silence from official project sources as though this issue is somehow incredibly confidential and sensitive. It isn't. (I am a Bluebell member by the way)

 

I think that some of the frustration expressed on this thread about the lack of news could easily be misinterpreted. I would like to hear more (I am also a Bluebell member, by the way) and the reason is to do with goodwill - The Bluebell's northern extension has been one of preservation's most challenging projects to date and I and many others want it to succeed. I remember in the days when I was an occasional volunteer being taken up to the West Hoathly station site soon after it was purchased, and standing there (I may have even ventured into the tunnel - can't remember) and dreaming of the days when trains would be running through it to East Grinstead. That was over 35 years ago. It has been a long, hard, slog for the Bluebell. I have heard criticisms, but not knowing the parties personally, would not feel in a position to comment. The bottom line is, however well managed or not the project may have been, the finishing line is now in site after a very long time, and it has been a fantastic achievement. I have made a financial contribution to it, and have followed progress avidly. I am really excited to think that we could only be a year away from the start of regular services. I guess the lack of news feels frustrating because in view of the overall timescale of the project, it is so close to completion, and at this late stage, I (and others too) am itching to see some sort of final plan showing what is going to be done and when. Having said that, there may be good reasons why the powers that be are keeping quiet for a while, and I guess one has to respect that. However, balanced against this is a concern that a perceived lack of communication may deter people from offering further financial support. I hope not, but if other worthwhile causes do offer more regular and detailed updates of their progress, this could be a possibility. After all, if one gives to support any project, it is only natural to want to see where your money goes.

 

Well said John - a worthy and balanced response.

 

I weas present at a talk by the extension project manager a couple of weeks ago, and he said that it looked as though there would be no need for further waste removal trains on NR, so it would seem to be a question of rearranging the remaining waste and clay capping and clearing up from now on. The uncovered tyres, for example, are to be used for embankment stabilisation (which is a permitted use).

 

Interesting...and thanks for the update,but writing as as a Bluebell member and donator,this just demonstrates the woeful lack of communication which has been debated at length on this thread. For goodness sake,if the project manager can give a talk 2 weeks ago,is it really impossible for SOMEONE at the Bluebell to update the website(which has not been updated since 11 Dec).

I seem to remember that last time someone made this point,the webmaster "threw his toys out of the pram" and started a bizarre and petulant rant about this forum. As has been said,if he cannot or will not update his site,can't someone else do it? After all,they still need money(lots of it) and if people(me included) don't know what is going on,they are much less likely to give.

just to demonstrate how different it could be,compare with the rebuilding of the Welsh Highland Railway.(Yes I know,totally different,big grants ect.,but the principle stands),there were at least 2 websites and a forum being updated on a virtually DAILY basis.This meant that you felt enthused and involved with the project,rather than giving money to an outfit which seemingly can't or won't give timely information on its website,which is,after all,its "Shop window".

Can anyone from the project comment on why this situation has arisen,or do anything about ir?

 

I agree and now we have the remarkable daily time lapse record of the Cob widening.

Meic

 

I followed the WHR project almost from the beginning - whilst physical progress, especially tracklaying, was widely publicised online there were no 'daily updates' about the kind of behind-the-scenes planning and discussions the Bluebell will be doing at the moment. Though people got frustrated i think most accepted that updates are best left until the detail had been nailed down, especially when contractors and 3rd parties were involve, or risk having to constantly correct (and dissapoint) people before work had even started. It helped too that if there was no news for a while about one site or aspect of the project there was plenty else to talk about.

Besides, i always found the WHR's e-group the best place for up-to-date information, or why it was lacking, and i've found the same is true with this project too.

Chris

 

Interesting comparison, but don't forget that one of the two websites mentioned there was (and is - isengard.co.uk) a totally unofficial independent effort, whilst the late Ben Fisher's website was very much his own supreme effort. Both seem to have relied on input from a sizeable number of supporters. The whole of the WHR project had a large number of volunteers involved, some of whom carried their enthusiasm over to taking photos, passing on information etc.. The present timelapse video record of the Cob widening is helped by the fact that it is taking place outside the office window and there is someone (Andrew) who has put in a huge amount of extra effort outside of his working hours to make it happen. The Railway's main website (Festrail.co.uk) over the years has given similar, or less, info than the Bluebell's.

OK, so the Bluebell doesn't have the same coverage. But nobody can demand that volunteers do more than they choose to do, and those who are employed by the railway have existing jobs to do, and anything extra comes out of their own time. I don't have any inside knowledge of the Bluebell, although I was a member when I lived in the south east (40 years ago!), and only follow what is happening there on the website, but I find the level of information considerably better and more up to date than some other railways with big projects on the go.

There has been nothing stopping any enthusiast putting together a website like Isengard for the Bluebell's extension and indeed the Philpott site does something of that sort (albeit sometimes more critically than some would like). The rest of us can't complain that no body else has stepped up and put the (unpaid and time consuming) effort in.

I'm just amazed at what has been achieved at the Bluebell over the years. When I was a member they'd only just managed to find enough money to buy the original line. The carriage shed appeared in the early 70's at a time when there weren't really enough locos serviceable to run the two train service. Things were wearing out quicker than they could be repaired, and many repairs were well beyond what was then thought possible for a preserved line. The present Loco facilities and workshop were merely a dream. Any thought of extension was met with disbelief. See what has been achieved!

Steve B

 

There was a brief update on the "What's New" page of th Bluebell Website saying that, "As per the December report, the Imberhorne tip site currently remains closed down for the winter.
◦A new phase of fund-raising is being prepared to provide the funding to finish the project. The preparations for this renewed appeal are well advanced, and there will be an update on the Northern Extension and fundraising in a newsletter to be published on Monday." However, I would suggest anyone reading this today (Friday 24th) actually goes to the website, as it also shows a really superb photo of 1638 and the Maunsell coaches.