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Bluebell Matters

Discussion in 'Heritage railways & Centres in the Uk' started by Jamessquared, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    I think you are right but whether they were separate castings or wrought iron sections forged together I cannot recall. Roll on someone in this thread who really knows!

    Paul H
     
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  2. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    I saw "Fenchurch" close up on a low loader outside the Brighton Centre a few years back, but am none the wiser. Mind you, my eyesight is pretty ropey these days!
     
  3. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson New Member

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    I wish I could remember for certain, but I'm fairly sure the source of this was a Roy Watts editorial in BlueNews some time ago. I've almost certainly got rid of the originals, perhaps some other knowledgeable bluebell source can clarify. I know the subject of 488s flawed wheelsets has come up more than once.
     
  4. Leafent

    Leafent New Member

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    What are the next engines being considered for overhaul? Looking at the running locomotives and the engines undergoing overhaul, the Bluebell are reasonably ok for bigger engines once Sinclair, Stowe and the Standard Tank enter traffic, probably up to six of class 3 power and above, before considering the Altantic.
    My personal choices would be Fenchurch - (I would guess it is one of the better out of ticket engines and it probably wouldn't require a massive amount of work), the North London tank (It's unique, been out of service for a while and could probably become a flagship engine to return to traffic) and I might look at returning one of the U's to traffic after Stowe re-enters service and Blackmoor Vale after Sinclair re-enters traffic, though probably not as a priority job.

    In the next 4-10 years, I think the Earl of Berkeley and the Standard four might be worth considering, while if 323, the S15 and the H are in relatively good condition after their boiler certificates expire I would probably consider a fast track overhaul for all three of them. Otherwise, I might look at restoring the Adams Radial, though that is a very big job.
     
  5. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Well-Known Member

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    So far as I'm aware.

    * The Dukedog I think is one of the (or is) next medium size loco due to go in for overhaul (possibly after 80151?). The C Class might be another one being looked at after that.

    * The Maunsell Society have said that they want to tackle 1618 after Stowe is complete.

    * The Bulleid Society are having a new firebox (or inner firebox) being made for Blackmoor Vale as part of a bulk batch order for other Bulleid Pacifics (which also includes 34059) and I think they want to have the it in steam for the loco's 80th Anniversary in 2026 . They also have a fund for Normandy's overhaul.

    * The Fenchurch Fund is currently working on 27 so presumably Fenchurch will be tackled after that.

    * There was a rumour from Steam Railway Magazine a little while back about 80064 being overhauled half way through 80151's next ticket so there's always a Standard 4 Tank in service but not sure how true that as and 80100 is a future project for the Standard 2 team.

    *Not sure about the NLR Tank although I remember something about it was hoped to overhaul it for the Imberhorne tip trains which never materialised. The Bluebell website says its hoped to overhaul it in the near future.

    *Not sure about 75027 although 92240 supposedly only requires a small amount of work to get it running again.
     
  6. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    In an ideal world, renewals should be funded from the fare box, but enhancements would be quite rightly 'capital' (from memory, a principle in Tax Law but also followed in accounts from a case involving the Highland Railway - other cases of railway companies trying to get new locos through as 'repairs' to existing machines also exist!)

    However, if a large quantity or cost of renewals/enhancements fall due at the same time, it would be both unreasonable and unwise for 'operating cash flow' to be expected to stand the full cost and an appeal to ease the call on cash flow would seem quite reasonable.

    Steven
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see "Normandy" ("the reason we don't need a diesel"!) on the list. I've got a particular regard for these chunky little locos.

    84100 would be a welcome sight too. If 064 and 151 were in service at the same time, there'd be scope for an authentic BR days Bluebell experience, though hopefully not with an authentic BR 'sulky service' timetable!
     
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  8. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson New Member

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    I always had a dream of seeing a Standard 4 tank hauling a Birdcage 3-set as a classic Lewes- East Grinstead train, but that looks to be increasingly unlikely, as the railway heads in a more commercial direction.
     
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  9. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    From the long term plan :-

    Whilst acknowledging that sets that include a mixture of types such as Bulleid and Mark 1 are both prototypical and inevitable, the aim is to create the following representative passenger carriage sets, for each of which a strategy document will specify the detailed policy:
    BR Standard Mark 1 Steam Stock.
    SR. Bulleid.
    SR. Maunsell.
    Southern Railway non-corridor stock of pre-grouping origin.
    Metropolitan Railway "Ashbury" stock.
    LB&SCR stock from the Stroudley and Craven eras.
    SECR non-bogie stock from the LCDR and SER companies.
    LSWR mixed types of vehicles as are available.
    SECR "Birdcage" set.
    All-Pullman train of 1920s and 1950s cars.
    A train of mainly BR Mk1 specifically for catering purposes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  10. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson New Member

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    Sure Paul, that's the long term plan, I know it well.
    Its just that bearing in mind the PLC's current requirement for 2 full mk1 sets, plus the fact that 949's rebuild has thus far taken 13 years, I dont think I'll be around to see most of that!
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    I remember when 949 entered the works - there was seemingly hardly any of it left, particularly of the bottom foot or so where it had rotted during its life as a grounded body. Over the same period (somewhat less in fact), three much more robust LCDR vehicles have been outshopped. In a parallel universe, you could probably argue that had the railway concentrated on LCDR vehicles over the last thirteen years, we'd now have a full (six coach) LCDR/SECR train. On the other hand, I can understand that LBSCR vehicles probably hold more interest on an ex-LBSCR line; and there may well have been a feeling that the condition of the Stroudley brakes made them a "now or never" in restoration terms - without the brakes, you don't have a Stroudley trains so I can see the importance of 949.

    Tom
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    The advantages of L.C.D.R. vehicles are, so I am told, twofold.

    Firstly, they are made of teak, which is an unbeatable structural timber. The "Brighton" used mahogany which is hard to think of as "inferior" but for this purpose it is.

    Secondly, L.C.D.R. vehicles are highly standardised as to components. So if a vehicle is past saving, the chances are that some doors and other bits can be re-used on another one. Thus whilst there remains a supply of donor vehicles, progress is likely to be swifter than with L.B.S.C.R. ones.

    PH
     
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  14. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Could you please clarify whether your reference to the robust nature of the LCDR vehicles is intended to imply a better original standard of construction, or is it simply a comment on the comparatively advanced disintegration of 949 before restoration commenced? Thanks in advance.

    Edit: If Paul's comprehensive post (above) covers all my ramblings, feel free to ignore this post! :)
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    See @paulhitch's answer. The teak survives grounding far better than the mahogany of former LBSCR vehicles. In addition, as far as I can see, Stroudley vehicles tend to have all sorts of subtle curves whereas the LCDR vehicles are rather "boxy" with lots of straight edges and right-angle corners; so if you do have to make replacement parts, they are somewhat easier to set up.

    Compare for example the end elevations and especially the windows of:

    http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/coach114.html (LCDR brake - scroll down)
    http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/coach949.html (LBSCR brake)

    3360 (the exLCDR wheelchair accessible saloon) was overhauled from a grounded body in two years. I know a monumental effort was put in, in part because of the conditions of the funding, but I don't think you could have got close had the starting point been an ex-Stroudley vehicle.

    Tom
     
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  16. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS New Member

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    One of Fenchurch's wheel sets was replaced before its last period in service because a flaw had started to develop in the wheel boss along one of the original welds. I was shown this by Andy Wilkins. I am 99% certain that he told me the original material was wrought iron. I also think that the other wheels were still the originals.
     
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  17. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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  18. jafcreasey

    jafcreasey New Member

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    H Class 263 was tucked away in the workshop this afternoon looking very sharp; assume Heritage Painting have visited again?
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    A couple of articles from the e-Newsletter: (See the actual newsletter for photos from both stories)

    Is It Really There? "Lidar" & Visual Effects Filming at the Railway

    There is a lot of filming going on at the Railway, but we are not able to give you full details of what is happening until after the films are released because of commercial sensitivity.

    However, there are certain goings-on we can disclose that you might find interesting for a number of different reasons. For instance, it will be obvious to most cinema-goers that the days of shaky painted backdrops in studios are a thing of the past and have been replaced by computer-assisted, state-of-the-art visual effects that can blend acting on normal sets with background scenes that appear completely real, even though they aren't really there.

    For films generally--and for films featuring the interior of railway carriages in particular--green screens have been used outside carriage windows for a long time. In fact an episode of Downton Abbey was filmed in a Pullman carriage at the Railway, but what you saw passing by in the window was filmed at the North Yorkshire Moors Railway (NYMR), which more suited the fictional journey. The NYMR footage was substituted later, projected onto the green screen, but it must be difficult for actors to imagine what is outside without seeing what is actually seen there after editing.

    "Chroma key" (green screen) technology works for one window at a time, but last year a new system was tried out and perfected with the help of the Bluebell Railway Film Department. This new technology allows for a view down the length of the carriage with a real time view showing at all the windows. This system is much more realistic, and it is about to appear on the silver screen very shortly.

    When films use mock ups of carriages in a studio, these shots have to be "blended" or rendered digitally with footage of the real carriage on the location shoot. It is obviously very important that you not see the join, so to speak, so the real carriages are scanned using the "Lidar process" that creates a completely accurate 3D digital model for the visual effects team to work with.

    Lidar is exactly the same process that is used by model companies when they are developing the tooling for many of the highly accurate locos and coaches now on sale in the Bluebell Railway Shop. Because the process does away with the need to work from drawings, the models are an exact replica of the real thing, with the only argument likely to be the colour of the paint!

    For a film job recently, three of our carriages were scanned, a process that involved setting up the scanner at five-metre intervals all the way around, with each scan taking about five minutes, roughly an hour for each carriage. The resulting data is then processed by very clever software to produce a 3D image that is accurate down to the nearest millimetre, with the only downside being that of making rivet counters redundant!

    By Mike Hopps

    Adds Tim Parkin: "I also scanned No. 847 on 1 Sept.,2017. It took all day and involved no less than 55 separate scans. Considerable more details were required here than with the rolling stock, hence the time and number of scans."
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    One on signalling - again, see the e-Newsletter for photographs.

    Update on Sheffield Park Down Inner Home Signals Works

    The final components were refitted to Sheffield Park's Down Inner Home signal on 18 Oct., 2017, allowing the contractor freedom to remove the scaffolding as soon as possible.

    The work has taken longer than expected, but a small team has spent all its volunteer days full-time on the project, if not on site then refurbishing the components back at the depot. A number of enhancements have been included in the work. The original structure had a number of dangerous access features that we have designed out without any major changes to the overall appearance.

    One of the improvements was to widen the platform and add additional handrails. Mike Hopps kindly assisted in designing, modifying, and building these features for us. We recently helped Mike fit these tubular handrails, which was an amazing exercise in threading the rails between scaffold poles and through the eyelets in the supporting posts, a three-dimensional puzzle.

    We also have improved the optics of the "oil" lamps. They were converted a number of years ago to low voltage battery fed incandescent lamps, but these still required regular replacements. Modern technology has allowed us to upgrade to LED bulbs, and a trial was held during the reconstruction period to confirm reliability. With the trial proving successful, the four arms have been fitted with the new system, and we will monitor their performance before installing Railway-wide.

    The refurbished signals have been fully tested so that once the scaffold has been removed, we can bring the signals back into work in a very short time and the prefab temporary signals can be removed and stood aside ready for recovery.

    That job will only leave the ladder and handrail to be painted, along with any touching up from bruising that will occur from the scaffold removal and replacement of the signal post telephone.

    By Brian Hymas
     
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