If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Baldwin "Lyn" new build.

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Meiriongwril, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. Greenway

    Greenway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    999
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    In that case there are rivers in Devon, not already used, with three letters but not in North Devon and they are Axe, Sid and Sig: take your pick.
     
  2. hoffman

    hoffman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Shhhhh!
     
  3. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    279
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    OK. Axe and Sid are names already in use on the L&B. Sig, I'd never heard of until now. It has an intriguing Norse ring to it.
     
  4. mgp

    mgp New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    16
    Alan

    Sorry to disappoint you once again! As you will see from these two pages on the L&B website http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/railway/rolling-stock/axe and http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/page/locomotives the rivers AXE and SID have both had L&B locos named after them.

    The L&B website (which you will find at http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/ ) has absolutely masses of information in its pages. Something to explore during the long winter evenings!

    Mike
     
  5. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    324
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cymru
    But Sid has gone, several years ago, to Sweden and been renamed. Thus the name is free again.

    Some years back someone produced a list of 3 letter river names in Devon (on the yahoo group I think, rather than on Nat Pres). There were a large number of them.
     
  6. Greenway

    Greenway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    999
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Many of the so called rivers in Devon are truthfully no more than streams which you can step across. I would have thought a more significant waterway would be one that was to be chosen. And as I mentioned in an earlier post which maybe was not read - I limited choices to North Devon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 11:09 AM
  7. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    651
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Found it:
    Keith
     
    clam1952, Beckford and Felix Holt like this.
  8. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    693
    Likes Received:
    540
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired University professor
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Double-headed Lyd and Lud, or maybe Ted and Red (painted indian red of course), or even Ben and Den with Lee, Ley and Lew :Saywhat:
     
  9. Masterbrew

    Masterbrew New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Staplehurst, Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Not Den Ted or Ben Ted, I hope, nor Lee Red. Ben Bow has a nautical ring, however.
     
  10. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    324
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cymru
    Suit those marine fireboxes then!
     
    Bertie Lissie and Bluenosejohn like this.
  11. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes Received:
    1,012
    This suggestion that the MW locos weren't built for the L&B, but we're rejects from elsewhere: is it just supposition, or is there any evidence to suggest it?
    I rather struggle to see what 2' gauge line they were built for if not the L&B. Gwalior?
    Are the MW records missing?
     
  12. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    101
    I've heard it discussed, never heard of it being the truth.
     
  13. lynbarn

    lynbarn Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    150
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    cat watching
    Location:
    Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    The understanding is this at the time these locos where being built Manning Wardle where engaged with building a number of locos for the Indian Bengal Nagpur Railway which at the time was designed to be 2ft gauge, however halfway through the contract the railway builders decided to build the railway to 2ft 6in gauge.

    It was realised that the 2-6-2T could not be re gauged to 2ft 6in but it was possible that the 0-6-2 Tender locos could and where done so these being works No 1401 to 1404 this left a hole in the order which where later filled by three more 0-6-2 Tender locos works no 1474 to 1476 this being about a year later.

    The 3 x 2-6-2T's where in effect finish in 1898 but as a cancelled order had no where to go, Manning Wardles had already been paid for the locos to a point, but the gauge conversion left them with three locos they could not sell.

    So when the L&BR came and asked about them Manning Wardle where only to happy to sell them at cost, when the L&BR asked if they could provide a fourth member of the class Manning Wardles could not do so for at least a year due to back orders and the new orders from Indian and the price also double for the fourth member of the class.

    While this does not cross the t's and dot the I's the dates of the dispatch for the 0-6-2 are 28th November 1898 to 6th December 1898, when you compare the L&BR 2-6-2T they where ready for dispatch on 11th November 1897, the reason for this is because they where ready first and where more advanced in the build.

    If this does not quiet settle it for you, then how about this the 3 replacement 0-6-2 locos where ready from 31st of May 1900. So there is the story as it is understood at present, but there is always something else that could come up and confirm all of this.

    Check the following link out for more details about the Indian Railways https://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Bengal-Nagpur_Railway

    hope this helps

    regards

    Colin
     
    ross and Mark Thompson like this.
  14. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    279
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    that's really interesting Colin. I don't suppose you know of any links to Manning Wardle works pictures of the 0-6-2 tender engines by any chance?
     
    paullad1984 likes this.
  15. lynbarn

    lynbarn Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    150
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    cat watching
    Location:
    Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    hopefully the following photo should help
     

    Attached Files:

    30854 and Mark Thompson like this.
  16. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I can see the similarities
     
  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,966
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hayling Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Walschaerts valve gear this time.

    PH
     
  18. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking at it, would fitting Walschaerts significantly affect the look of any proposed new build?
     
  19. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes Received:
    1,012
    Interesting - do you have any reference source for the gauge conversion of the BNR locos?
    If this is true, I'm surprised I've not come across it before.
    The BNR had two narrow gauge systems (actually more, but two mains ones). The largest was the Satpura Lines, which was originally proposed as a 2' gauge line. This would be in about 1897. But by the time the line actually got the go ahead it was January 1902, and definitely a 2'6'' gauge line. It did have tank engines - great big 2-8-4T from Sharp Stewart built in 1901.
    The other main BNR narrow gauge system was the Raipur Dhamtari Railway. This was originally supposed to be broad gauge, but in April 1896 was sanctioned by the Government of India as a 2'6'' gauge line. Note definitely that gauge - and 1896 correspondence states both this gauge, and the need for four locos. This line is where the four MW 0-6-2 locos of 1898 went, as that line's no's 1-4.
    As they had outside frames (like the L&B tanks), regaugeing would have required the same amount of work as on the tank locos, so not sure why one was possible and the other not.
    Nor am I convinced that there is much similarity beyond hat you would expect from contemporary products of the same firm. Why Joy valve gear on the 2-6-2Ts and Walshaerts on the 0-6-2s?
    Surely the more likely story, unless we have some actual documentation or contemporary remarks on the Indian connection, is that the 2-6-2T were a separate order for the L&B, to their spec? After all, they might not have been the strongest locos or had the best adhesion but they are rather in the style of British and Irish NG locos of the same era, and how many other, much greater, railways ordered locos which turned out to be not quite as good as they might have been?
     
    30854, lynbarn, Meiriongwril and 2 others like this.
  20. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,557
    Likes Received:
    1,471
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And then along came Everard Calthrop and nothing on the Indian NG was ever the same again!
     
    paullad1984 and ross like this.

Share This Page