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Avon Valley Extension

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by SpudUk, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    Hullo!

    I know the AVR has plans to extended toward Bath. Looking at the map, it looks 'easy' to get to Brassmill, or if not that far the Newbridge Road area. Is that the plan?

    In other news, might be volunteering at AVR soon maybe. Have been thinking about it, and as they have no box to volunteer in, I fancy being a driver, diesel or steam (steam :D) so yea, work up to that! Would be nice anyways :D
     
  2. Jark91

    Jark91 Member

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    Rather off-topic (and sorry to hijack your thread like this Chris) but I think I read recently that the AVR gets 80,000 visitors a year? I thought it must have been wrong since it doesn't seem to have a profile high enough to correlate with visitor numbers that high - can anybody shed any light?
     
  3. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    If you look at the map, the closest they will be able to get is to the point where the trackbed meets the road into Brassmill. The route beyond that is earmarked for the hugely controversial Bath Transport Package's Bus Rapid Transit route. That little mess is currently awaiting a public enquiry into the compulsory purchase orders on the land needed (including parts of people's back gardens!) with serious doubts now over whether it will survive as it relies on Government funding which may well not be there if we have a change of Government. (You may be aware of this being local but its worth filling in the background for a wider audience!)

    There is probably room for a small terminus at Brassmill and that would make sense in transport terms as it would enable a connection to be made to the BRT if it ever happens, or maybe a link to a re-routed park and ride service.

    I'm not quite sure how its going to work in practical terms - the section from Bitton to Bath needs a facility to pass passenger trains - that can't happen safely at Avon Riverside because there is only one platform. There is only one more original station back to Bath which is at Kelston so unless a double platform goes in there, its hard to see where you could put a loop without having it stuck out in the middle of nowhere. That might however get you your box though!
     
  4. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    Depends how you define visitors - its on a popular cyclepath and has its cafe open every day even when not operating. If you start to factor those "visitors" on top of the ticket buying visitors the numbers could stack up pretty quickly. That said I know they do a fairly heavy trade on Santa and Thomas days because of the proximity to both Bristol and Bath.
     
  5. Andyjb6

    Andyjb6 New Member

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    I almost think it's a shame that they don't attempt to head toward Mangotsfield first - certainly a lot of potential in that route since most of the stations in that direction remain and the Mangotsfield platforms are,if I recall, mostly intact. And depending on how much of the old station they were able to use, looping shouldn't be too big an issue either.

    Though, prohibitive costs aside, I guess that the tourist potential offered by having a terminus near Bath isn't present either.
     
  6. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    Andy - the platforms at Mangotsfield are fairly intact - the trackbed to get there isn't. A significant chunk of it just south of Mangotsfield is now under the A4174 Avon Ring Road - even if room could be found along side the road, there would be some major bridge issues. On top of that, a level crossing would be required on the A420 by Hanham station - which would be a very big undertaking for a heritage line as its a major road, and then to cap it off, as I understood it, the AVR had agreed with local residents not to seek to extend beyond Oldland Common due to the proximity to housing.

    Road access to Mangotsfield station isn't great with little room for parking, so in most terms heading for the tourists in Bath is probably more sensible.

    The latest on the BRT which was proposed for the trackbed from Newbridge into Bath is that it has been denied funding in the first round, and put in a second group of projects asked to make final proposals to share in a pot of money. It seems likely that some changes will have to be made to the scheme - the question is whether the busway part which is somewhat controversial locally will get dropped - although in reality if it is, there is very little chance of a rail reopening on the route being acceptable either.
     
  7. Andyjb6

    Andyjb6 New Member

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    Thanks for clarifying - haven't been down that way for a significant amount of time, so wasn't absolutely sure of what the state of play was.
     
  8. Stuart666

    Stuart666 New Member

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    Ive idly wondered if they could get track back to Westerleigh and the oil terminal there, but the only way I could see it happening is if Network Rail have a requirement for a line that completely bypasses Bristol. Pretty unlikely as things stand, though juding by the amount of urbanization around the area, it would be worth its weight in gold as a commuter line if it was still open. The only good news I can see is that he pathway under the motorway is still clear, and so is a considerable amount of the trackbed towards Mangotsfield from that direction. But you still have the problem of multiple bridges being required over the bypass. It would make the Great Central bridge over the MML look easy.

    Same with the line into Bath, I cannot see any realistic way they can get track back to Green Park station. Maybe a tramway may one day be viable, but the area has had a history of proposing tramways without any cash being available. A better idea would be to connect to the GWML near the river to gain access to Bath, but again, unless Network Rail see a utility for doing so, its not going to happen. And if it did, not only would the Avon Valley Railway have to fight for room among other companies using the line, you have the problem of who is going to deal with all those irate cyclists, because it could hardly be workable without the line being redoubled.

    I will say that its a nice line and I wish them the best for the future. They clearly have one because if nothing else its well placed to receive enthusiasts from Bristol and Bath.

    Does anyone know if they have plans to get back into Warmley? The platforms are still in place, and whilst I understand that the road crossing would be difficult, it would certainly be rewarding to see if they put it back.
     
  9. Andyjb6

    Andyjb6 New Member

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    So far as getting to Bath is concerned (and issues pertaining to funding and access aside) the closest that they could get to Bath would be Newbridge (Brassmill Lane) - beyond the trackbed has mostly* disappeared beneath industrial units, car parks and housing estates.

    As mentioned by 6024KEI, Warmley is apparently no-go since the AVR can't extend in that direction. A real pity considering the intact stations.

    Irrespective - it must be pretty frustrating for the AVR, having the 'advantage' of having so much of the trackbed in either direction, for all intents and purposes, intact and not being able to take full advantage of it.

    *Weston station building remains (now used as a radio station), as does the first bridge in the city itself (near the gas works) over the Avon.
     
  10. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    If I won the EuroMillions I would buy Green Park as it would make one hell of a preserved station. But yea, Brassmill Lane is the best bet for actually getting into Bath
     
  11. Stuart666

    Stuart666 New Member

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    Is the trackbed blocked between Warmley and Oldland Common? Or is it some restriction related to building a level crossing. It is quite a busy road at Warmley that I recall.

    Re Weston, I just looked it up on Wikipedia and there is quite a nice picture of it. Nice to see it well maintained, even if it will never be used as a station again.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Weston_(Bath)_station_in_September_2007.jpg

    As you say, it must be terribly frustrating for them. But they have done wonders with what they have. I can recall as a child it not extending south beyond the Bridge at Bitton, so they have already achieved quite a lot to their credit.
     
  12. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    The trackbed is open between Warmley and Oldland Common, but as I said when locals were consulted about an extension beyond Oldland Common, there was some opposition, so the decision was made to go the other way. Its possible to build a small halt on the south side of the road at Warmley next to the signal box which remains there, but its going to seem a bit odd when the real station is there on the other side of the road. The A420 is one of the main roads into Bristol from the east and not a road that highway authorities are lightly going to agree to an "amateur" level crossing being operated on, so it would have to be fully automated lights and barriers etc. You certainly would have to be brave to be a crossing keeper trying to close gates against the traffic on there.

    Another side issue comes into play with the Bath direction. Certainly at present (although this is very much under review) the secondary school nearest to Newbridge (Oldfield School on Kelston Road) takes a lot of kids from areas around Bitton, Oldland Common etc. Its perhaps slightly fanciful but not entirely impractical for the AVR to run say a heritage DMU commuter service that takes kids from OC, and Bitton into the outskirts of Bath for them to walk up to school, and also connect with the Park and Ride buses at Newbridge for work commuters to get into Bath.

    Its going to take a fair while to get to Bath and get that stabilised and established. I guess if that is all done, and the Bitton site developed to provide cover and workshops for stock (as is planned) then they might get around to looking the other way.
     
  13. Stuart666

    Stuart666 New Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up. As you say it clearly makes sense to go in the Bath direction first, with luck that may start to change a few minds as the line increases in length.
     
  14. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    That's a good point Stuart - some of the areas around Warmley, Longwell Green, Oldland Common, Bitton etc do act as dormitory areas for Bath - housing is cheaper than the ferocious Bath prices - so if there is a prospect of some form of transport use as well as heritage then it may indeed change some minds.
     
  15. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    The route toward Bath is nice as well, so yea, positives all the way!
     
  16. Stuart666

    Stuart666 New Member

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    Im hoping the same thing will happen with the Honeybourne line. At the moment it looks pretty unlikely they would get the go ahead to relink back in Cheltenham. When they get to Honeybourne, the case for Network Rail doing so is going to look all the greater, particularly as there has been recent discussion in the paper about getting the Stratford/Honeybourne line reinstated.

    Of course the problems of doing anything like that for the Avon Valley are going to be very much greater. But you never know. In 25 years time I really cant see as much green belt left between Bristol and Bath, so some long term consideration of the route for passenger traffic ought to be considered.

    And yes, I would agree, the route is nicer the closer you get to Bath. If you went North all you would get would be bypasses, old coal mines, an oil terminal and a disused council refuse facility. All very interesting, but perhaps not guaranteed to get the tourists in. :)
     
  17. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    The original plan for the AVR at that time called The Bristol Suburban Railway was to reinstate the line from Bristol to Bath.

    The plans did not include the line under the M4 and the now oil terminal.

    Unfortunately, the railway did not have the backing of the council for many years and this, along with a number of other factors, limited the line's ability to grow.

    Now with significant parts of the railway lying under the northern bypass the only real place where growth can come is towards Bath.

    Crossing the road at Warmley just to gain access to the old station site is IMHO never going to happen.
     
  18. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    Is it true they were orginally offered Bath Green Park but under the understanding that the bridge would be removed and they would, essentially, be stuck there??
     
  19. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    That's a story I heard in recent years - but I can not recall anyone suggesting it back in the founding days of the society.

    In any event, given the state of Green Park in those days, it would IMHO have been a millstone around the society.
     
  20. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    Crumbs, has it really been 2 years since this conversation started!?

    Just wondered if there was an update, and to clarify if the extended AVR into Bath plans to run through Kelston and Weston?

    Many thanks
     

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