Avon Valley based LMS 4F 4123 (BR 44123).

To be fair the AVR is in between Bath and Bristol, and Bitton is a pretty sizeable place in itself, not sure you could ask for a better location for this kind of sized railway

 

The station seemed very busy to me when I visited as a popular stop off for walkers and cyclists. I imagine the café must be quite profitable.

It's another of those railways where you can't see anything much other than the operating train. Top of that list in my book? Llangollen.

 

The AVR started with very grand plans for the line from Bristol to Bath. ironically if a large chunk weren't built over parts would form a very useful metro line into the Bristol suburbs.

It had the usual selection of dreamers that all such lines have at the start.

What it always lacked IMHO was a well-connected get-things-done set of directors.

In addition it had to battle the NIMBYS who didn't want the line extending.

That coupled with a lack of interesting scenery, working locos etc meant it never really got out of the starting blocks.

It is unlikely ever to grow and will IMHO never reach the outskirts of Bath as it wants to.


It will never be a preserved line with stations that reflect the past.


However, it serves its market and that's all that can be asked.

 

When the Society moved in to Bitton, I asked why we didn't start at Bath GP and lay track towards Bitton etc. Back then one or two BR (as was) managers were allegedly anti the preservation scheme. Consequently there was a fear that if we moved to Bath, then BR would find a reason to remove the first bridge on the route and we would have been stuck.
In the mid 70's a few members did up the Warmly LC signal box and had "working weekends" there. There's no way if the line was extended from Oldland permission to cross the road would be granted, but is it feasible to extend from Oldland to say, a run round loop at Warmley?

 

I don't know if an extension to Warmley is possible but the last I heard was of a very expensive extension towards Bath. I don't think there was ever a plan to start at Bath certainly there was no money to do up Green Park station. As to signal boxes well they let the one we rescued from Gloucester fall apart.

 

If this loco were to move, surely the East Somerset would be high on he list of choices? A good size for them, and they have just proved their abilities twice over.

 

Undoubtedly Cranmore can work wonders, but I suggest that once restored Midsomer Norton seems a more logical home

 

Maybe logical (or perhaps better described as nostalgically suitable), but it would be completely uneconomic with such a short running line. The loco would be in financial trouble from day 1.


Keith

 

Well when the S&D gets to Chilcompton it would be about the same length as the ESR.

Given that the biggest expense is the 10 yearly boiler overhaul, how would the costs compare with a Jinty or Austerity?

 

getting to Chilcompton is going to be difficult lots of rubbish to remove and lots of £ to raise not saying it will not happen but in the current climate difficult people who remember the S&D are diminishing all the time so how long before its just a line from nowhere to nowhere you need a end destination to attract families and Chilcompton is not a Swanage or Kingswear.

 

The ESR is 2.5 miles long, I would've thought you'd be looking at a line of around 5 miles to make a 4F pay.


Keith

 

Presumably the ESR feel that 46447 they operate is worthwhile though, and that must be broadly similar in total 10-year operating cost (I'd pay more attention to both being 6-coupled superheated tender engines, rather than any notional difference in power classification). The key issue is surely not length of line per se but the daily rate and number of days per year on offer, and whether any putative deal works for both owner and host on those terms.

Tom

 

Just to point out 46447 is on a ten year loan. It is likely to be a deal more "user friendly" than a 4F as well.

P.H.

 

Equally there seems to be an increasing trend for the number of consecutive days in steam to ease boiler stresses, the notion of steaming a loco for just a weekend (on a regular basis at least) seems to be at odds with what loco owners require these days.

Regards

Matt

 

How do the running costs of locos compare these days? I can understand that in most cases operating - for example a Bullied Pacific is going to cost more and clearly you will need more coal to fill the box on a 9F compared with a 57XX but what about say 2cyl class 4's?

 

I can't really see what mileage has to do with it. Most loco hires these days are based on a days steaming, not mileage (unless it is excessive.)

 

If I am not mistaken, the loco is in quite significant "financial trouble" as it stands now, in a stripped and unrestored state. I think this would
need to be sorted first before people start dreaming about where it might be able to operate economically. Would half a million pounds be a realistic estimate of the sum required to steam this loco?

It seems to me that the dream of the shell that is 44123 running through the jungle that is the line in Chilcompton may be warm and fuzzy but is so highly improbable that even paulhitch does not feel it is worth ridiculing, so I'll do it for him. Dream on.

Sorry to sound so harsh.

Peter James

 

I am referring to the current proposals for the S&D ie to the start of the cuttings at Chilcompton which is moving ahead.

It seems to me though that the loco is worth restoring. What did it cost to restore the Ivatts at Cranmore?

 

Not done on an identical basis. The tender locomotive was overhauled by E.S.R. who then have the use of her for ten years. 41313 is being done as a pure contract job. Not sure of the contract sum but it will be much less than half a million pounds. Part of the cost is being met by a legacy and part from an appeal. Of course the three Ivatts were gifted to the I.O.W.S.R. by the former Ivatt Trust.

PH

(P.S. A figure is mentioned in the IOWSR website for 41313 but, of course, this may not be the final sum)