Avon Valley based LMS 4F 4123 (BR 44123).

Of course given that its in the open air there is a significant amount of work that needs to be done just to stand still

 

Hi Martin.

The real owners of 44123 are all known, and are the people who bought the engine from Woodhams, and moved it to the Mid-Hants, and later, in 1985 moved it to Bitton.

Those are the owners, but there are a group of people who are working on 44123, who think they now own the engine, and have taken on the persona of the LM Society.

Rolling stock owned by original society members has been illegally sold off, to Bitton members for pennies, without recourse to the owners.

The engine has been at Bitton longer than it was in Barry [35+ Years at Bitton].

Since it's arrival in 1985 to 1989 progress was being made, but due to political problems at Bitton, like charging for parking rolling stock, charging for water and power, things almost no other railways does, the working membership of the original group faded away.

With the death of Mike Vout a few years ago, there were none of the original group left, other than the surviving owners.

The people working on 44123 are all Bitton members, and 44123 is the last BR steamer they have after loosing the 8f, 3f, Black 5, 80xxx tank, and Bullied, they have a good track record of restoring things. Even General Lord Robertson, the only 0-8-0 Sentinal, sits rotting under a tarp in bits.

2030 is 13 years away, by which time the owners will all be dead, which is far from expectable.

Anyone who would like to take 44123 under their wing, please drop me an email.

 

just to point out the LM Society didn't make a decision to leave the MHR, they were forced to do so. I sincerely doubt many if any of the original owners would like to see it moved back to that particular piece of Hampshire. (I have no connection to the LMSocirety so I'm happy to be corrected if my take on the matter is wrong)

 

2030 was just my guess of a completion date based on the progress that is observable on the flickr site (the main website not having been updated for a considerable time).

You mention new people taking 4123 under their wing - if there are already differences of opinion on ownership that will need to be resolved, where would that leave new members? (would they be shareholders?)

Thanks


Keith

 

I must admit that rather like the ESR, I have wondered what the point is of the AVR

While its a long time ago, and as The Saggin Dragon will point out, the plural of anecdote is not data, a former colleague & her partner looked at volunteering at the AVR which was down the road but went for Swanage instead as that was where it was all happening, despite the larger distance involved to get there and overnight accomodation

 

it seems obvious to me that the Owner's of a loco and those supporting it's restoration are not necessarily the same. In the absence of any agreement or contract to the contrary, the loco surely is owned by whoever paid for it. I don't know for sure, but I believe that was certain individuals rather than the LM Society.

 

Regardless of ownership/politics, It's difficult to see where the AVR would ever be in a position to take on a such a restoration at Bitton.

 

Hmm. Someone I know apparently offered to buy it a few years ago and was told it wasn't for sale. He's now virtually finished the loco he bought instead - probably an easier project, but one has to wonder if hanging onto it (and on and on) was the right decision.

 

obviously the ownership question has to be settled before anything else, From what i remember it was 4 individuals who purchased 44123 from woodhams, one Mike died recently , so im assuming the shares went to his estate, the others i dont know of but John does, so in my estimation the legal owners now need to decide what the future is, you can not have this situation where by the ownership is uncertain, if another railway has better facilities then to me it may make sence to relocate and think about either donating your shares to a charity set up to provide safe ownership, i will be honest and say , i would prefer it if it either returned to the MHR, owned by the MHRPS, if they can guarentee a timetable to restore the engine, and allow those who are currently working on it to continue, at Ropley, or even to bring it down here, to Sussex, a 4f would suit the KESR very much, but i'm sure some would disagree .

 

I would agree with you there, but as John has stated, there seems to be dispute about ownership with the current team working on the loco. The other issue that could arise if the original purchasers are deemed to be the owners is payment for the work and materials already carried out.

It could open a hornet's nest of problems!


Keith

 

i don't think there has been enough work carried out to worry about. The website launched on here a few years ago has no recent updates

I assume what John ,means is that the current LM Society, which I suppose is the original one continued on with new members , claims to own the loco by default, but I doubt that would hold up legally.

 

Unfortunately the AVR has a track record of locos arriving without the money to complete them. I don't think there is a simple answer to that problem and the AVR are not alone in that regard.

 

Very true Simon, was only talking about this sort of thing with a mate today

 

I live relatively close to the AVR and desperately want to love it - but there is a strange vibe about it and how it operates

 

I suspect that is because it is what I would call "pure enthusiasm". A place where the volunteers go to enjoy themselves without much of plan to what they do. If you fit in, it would be a great place, if you don't , then best look elsewhere. It's not necessarily a bad thing, the MHR was much like that in the start, as no doubt were most places. There are several more places I could list that fit into the same category, great fun for the enthusiasts but not always great to visit..

 

It seems to me from an enthusiasts point of view there isn't much there, a few diesels and not a lot of track to run them on. Not much to show for 40 years.

Whatever else you think of it the ESR has Cranmore Traincare & has done some good work restoring loco's

 

That was the BSRS's problem in the early days; they were not allowed to move in to Bitton until BR had removed all the track. It was then a case of buying track just for storing stock and then for the mainline whilst simultaneously trying to purchase rolling stock etc.

 

But The Swanage Railway managed to rebuild their line.....................

 

the problem with a lot of preserved lines is that they go from nowhere to nowhere the Avon valley falls into this category families turn up for organized events like Santa and peppa pig etc but passenger numbers are low on ordinary days as its just a trundle through the countryside with nothing to do at each end. its a shame that the railway cannot offer boat trips along the river but finding an operator seems difficult.