If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Asbestos removal

Discussion in 'Locomotive Engineering M.I.C' started by Thakeham5, Apr 21, 2016.

Tags:
  1. Thakeham5

    Thakeham5 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Hopefully this is the most suitable place for this thread.


    We all know just how devastating asbestos can be so with that in mind can anyone advise with regard to boiler lagging asbestos removal from a small (derelict) standard gauge 0-4-0 saddle tank.


    Removal obviously needs to be carried out by licensed contractors operating within HSE legislation, but how does this work when your loco needs stripping to expose the asbestos, for example lifting the saddle tank and removing cladding? Do the removal contractors do this work? Can anyone recommend a removal contractor and also does anyone have any idea of how much it might cost? Presumably this is not a cheap exercise.


    What about if one wanted to move the loco by road? Is this still possible with asbestos content but suitable wrapped? And I’ve heard there are laws against selling locos etc with asbestos content. The HSE website contains plenty of information regarding asbestos in the home and workplace but quite understandably doesn’t cover ‘heritage’ issues. Is there anywhere on the web where more information can be gleaned?


    Lots of questions I know but hopefully the knowledge is out there!


    Thanks,

    James.
     
  2. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    1,665
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    West Byfleet
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Selling locos with asbestos is quite possible. There is an exemption for heritage vehicles provided certain conditions are met. See: http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/assets/docs/heritage-vehicle-exemption-certificate.pdf
    You can also move them by road provided that there is no danger of asbestos being released. i.e. the boiler cladding must be sound and secured. If there are any areas of doubt these can usually be sealed with an expanding foam or other method.
    With regard to removing the boiler lagging. It should be possible to crane off the tank before the actual removal process starts. Again, make sure that any potential places of liberation are well sealed. The licensed contractor should be able to remove and clean the cladding sheets as part of the removal process.
    If in doubt about any of this, have a word with the ever helpful Railway Inspectorate.
     
    Thakeham5 likes this.
  4. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,261
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Semi-retired farmer, railway & museum owner
    Location:
    Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex
    I agree with all of @Steve 's points, though I would advise being prepared for surprises. Some years ago we undertook asbestos removal on an ancient 0-6-0ST, using a licensed contractor. The job was expected to be straightforward, all that we had to do was provide a covered area where the contractors could erect a plastic-covered "tent" around the loco in which to do the work- and remove the saddle-tank. We craned the tank up the day before the contractors were to start and, having raised it about two feet, were surprised and rather alarmed to find that the boiler cladding only extended about nine inches above the bottom of the tank, above which all the asbestos covering the top of the boiler was exposed. What to do? We could simply replace the tank, but this would certainly cause asbestos to escape as the lower boiler cladding sheets had sprung out as the tank was lifted. I rang the HSE, emphasising the urgency of the situation; waste of time. Our contractors were much more helpful, they advised that we continue removing the tank, go to the local builder's merchants (fortunately it was a weekday and they were open) and get enough plastic sheet and duct tape to cover and seal the exposed asbestos, plus disposable overalls and dust masks for those doing the work.

    The point is that no amount of prior investigation would have prepared us for what we found. If I had to do something similar in future I think that I would ensure that the asbestos removal contractors were present for the tank lifting process.
     
  5. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,804
    Likes Received:
    613
    Get several contractors to come and look at the job and quote.
    Don't necessarily go for the cheapest, go for the one who will work with you and be sympathetic to the loco - they will be used to doing buildings and industrial installations, not historic steam locos. I have had firms come out and say that they would just remove and scrap fittings, so explain the nature of the machine.

    It will be several thousand pounds as you will need the air monitoring and certificates at the end of the job too.
    Preparation and being informed is everything. Take time and get it right and the chance of things going wrong is lessened.

    As John says, in any doubt, have the contractor there for the tank lifting, yes.
     
  6. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    12,590
    Likes Received:
    3,325
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Been there ... In our case, many years ago, we lifted the side tanks and the cladding and lagging slid off the loco in one sodden mass and landed in the 4 foot. Happily it was sheeted and the contractors were on hand to deal with it immediately.
     
    Thakeham5 likes this.
  7. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,261
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Semi-retired farmer, railway & museum owner
    Location:
    Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex
    Indeed, choice of contractor is very important. Find one who understands what you are doing and is sympathetic to preservation and not only will they will do the best job, they may be less expensive than you might expect;). We were fortunate that one of our volunteers was a senior engineer at our local nuclear power station and introduced me to the contractor who did their asbestos removal work. I suppose that, by comparison, our job was a piece of cake:).
     
    Thakeham5 likes this.
  8. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    50
    Occupation:
    Boilermaker
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Anyone willing to give a ball park estimate on the current cost of removing the boiler asbestos from a small 4 coupled saddle tank loco (Kerr Stuart Moss Bay sort of size)? Loco is currently assembled as a complete lump more or less as it last steamed.

    I'm currently eyeing up as a project a very derelict loco which I'm fairly sure is still asbestos lagged, I'm not at a point where it would be appropriate to get formal quotes from contractors (it's not mine, I want to be fairly sure I can afford to do something with it before I go to the trouble of making a serious attempt at extracting it from it's current owners) - I'd just like some sort of indication as to what it would cost to stick in my budget. If I do obtain the loco, it will need dealing with ASAP as the lagging sheets are starting to let go due to rust... (but pointing this out to it's owners may assist in making a purchase - it's an ill wind that blows nobody good. If it wasn't for the asbestos issue I've reason to suspect the loco in question would sit where it is till the end of time).
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  9. Thakeham5

    Thakeham5 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Many thanks chaps, all very helpful information indeed! Much appreciated; all that remains now is to get an indication of costs, time to get some quotes in.
     

Share This Page