A1SLT... What next.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-27503995

 

The exhaust system design is key and it is pleasing to see that this is being taken more seriously. One part of the system that doesn't get much attention are the bellmouths in the exhaust and in the steam dome. Bellmouths have had millions spent on them for motorsport in the last 30 years indeed a few people have spent their whole career just designing them, but those used even in steam loco's seem very basic in design even though a lot of thought has gone into the blastpipe nozzels and diffuser . There is probably a good bit of further performance improvement to come, by ensuring that these have the correct curvature (and positioning) and also optimising the way either the exhaust gases or live steam flows into them. If only there was a bellmouth designer out there who is a steam enthusiast further improvements would likely follow.

 

No you wouldn't, and for that matter I doubt many people would propose sticking a Giesl ejector onto a P2 or V4, even if it gave the best performance.

But the solution would have to conform to specified parameters, which would include the external appearance of the loco and its chimney. After all, the F1 designers have to conform to regulations which are extremely challenging and performance limiting. Ironically one of the things banned at the end of last season was the exhaust blown diffuser - exactly the thing you would want to optimise in a steam locomotive!

Yes, on reflection the cost would probably be prohibitive, but I like the idea of commissioning a post graduate project. Now where's that lottery ticket?

 

Sorry Spam, it was supposed to sound /read like Prince Charles...

 

I see. Difficult to replicate HRH in plain text so I'll let you off.

 

Ive had another go...and edited the post Would Camilla be a good name for a steam loco ?

 

For a horse maybe but not a loco.

 

My own preference would be for a K3, as to me they look so incredibly imposing. They were the first locos in the UK with a 6ft. diameter boiler, and allied to 5' 8" driving wheels gave a thoroughly workmanlike apperance. I'd love one to be built with the original GNR cab, as again it just looks right to me... But I guess that modern day crew comfort and safety would dictate a NER-style side-window cab.
Off the top of my head I can't remember the axle loadings, but would suspect that it would be pretty limited in scope on preserved lines today.

So, down to practicality... A V3 would be nice, but would more than likely be limited by water capacity on some longer runs, but the V4 presents a great case... Reasonable axle-loading, wide firebox, and substantial tractive effort. And a damn fine looking machine to boot! Route-wise I would imagine it would be good for a fair percentage of the National Network - Would it be suited to the West Highland line? Or the Glasgow - Fort William line?
I think the V4 would be the most useful choice, to be honest.

Richard.

 

The Glasgow-Fort Wiliam line, is the West Highland line.

 

OK, if we are going to be pedantic about it, the West Highland Extension. Late nights don't do my thought processes any good!

Richard.

 

The A1 people are in the same boat now as the owners of all the other main line class 8s and others (without the benefit of it being an original loco) so what they have ahead is ten years of keeping it running and gathering enough cash together to pay for it's overhaul and then once they've done that, repeat....

It won't be an easy task to raise the manpower, enthusiasm and cash to build anything else...the novelty factor of a new-build is gone...I wish them luck, but hey face an uphill struggle now as any Group would do. I wish them luck, but whilst they strive to build something new, genuine locos fall by the wayside. Green Arrow has been mentioned, Blue Peter is another and that's just amongst the under-represented LNER types.

 

I know of a certain preserved LNWR carriage that is nicknamed Camilla, on account of only being a semi-royal saloon

Tom

 

I think the whole idea of building a second loco is that they will have two to rotate, thus one will always be earning.

For that reason I suspect it is very unlikely they will build anything else after the P2, but no harm in speculating.

I doubt that Green Arrow will run again whatever the A1SLT do and IIRC Blue Peter is someone's private property.

There are so many missing LNER classes its easy to get carried away - I'd like one of the 'Super V2's' (Kylchap, outside steam pipes) and an A3 in final condition - Flying Fox for preference. They aren't even missing classes, just particular variants. Ain't gonna happen, unless the Euro-millions win comes up. I'll just have to stick to my model versions.

 

Im not sure why people keep looking to designs that are older... The usual Gresley froth about the V4 and use in Scotland etc is as much craven following of a subject long since gone and one to which enthusiasts like uniting behind with a rose tinted hindsight. The engine would be limited in use on todays fast running MDTR. The A1 Trust like engines going mainline, and the idea of one for preservation useage would be a step change in thinking.

The G5 project did have plans drawn up to continue making members of the new build once the first one was made, but I doubt this will now happen.

The A1 trust have the chance to make an engine that could be a better design made from a period closer to the end of steam, where design and thinking was better and more technology had been refined to get the best results before it couldnt be taken any further. Thats why an engine such as the L1 would be a better choice. Medium powered, a tank design, large cab and good route availability. Building more than one would also be a boon to lines needing reliable motive power to buy for themselves. What your after is an L4, an improved L1 -although Id change the smokebox door to a Darlington style to give it a tad more fleet wide look as befits Darlington built machines.

 

The A1 Trust started with the aim of building a valuable and missing LNER design. Having succeeded it wishes to continue building vanished LNE designs. The V4 was a very interesting alternative to the use of the 4-6-0 as a medium weight mixed traffic locomotive. Judged at the time of testing to be the best locomotive ever used in East Anglia it could easily handle the majority of today's excursions.

As far as a design from closer to the end of steam goes. If you want a subject that is better than what has been built to date the simple fact is that there isn't one. If you are wanting a group to build a steam locomotive that incorporates the very best aspects of design and construction possible to date then you will have to find someone who is willing to design it. Actually, that has been done but taking the next step and funding the build proved to be impossible.

You could build a vastly improved locomotive but it will never happen. The result would slay the reputations of all that went before. All those cherished heroes of the days of youth that enthusiasts cling to. They are the people who would have to raise the money. And in a case of this nature they are going to sit most firmly on their hands.

 

The Thompson L1's were a disaster - they did none of the jobs they were designed for well and in the main were withdrawn before older locos they were supposed to replace. Why on earth would you want to build one?

I would be happy to see someone design and build something along the lines of 242A1 for the UK. I personally would put money into that where I certainly wouldn't put money into creating another mongrel that claims to represent a missing class assembled from whatever odd bits and pieces that are lying around. The trouble is that not enough people hold similar enough views to myself to make such a project viable, as the demise of the 5AT proposal has proved.

Neither of course would represent the maximum advance possible with a steam loco - such a truly modern machine would look more like the Leader or Jawn Henry - - not that either of those were necessarily heading in the right direction, but it is hard to imagine a modern locomotive that would not have a 100% adhesion factor and electronic traction control.

I don't agree with my respected friend above that this is down to some idea of preserving past reputations - Stirling doesn't lose his reputation because Gresley builds a better loco 50 years later - its simply because the preservation movement is almost entirely funded by nostalgia, and there is no body of nostalgia for a new efficient steam loco, especially one that may not end up looking like a steam loco at all.

The point about a new build V4 (not assembled from oddments) is that it would be a viable mainline loco which could do a variety of jobs, for some of which a P2/A1 would be overkill. It's performance was, when tested on the GE, roughly comparable to a typical Britannia performance. As a rail-tour loco the practical objection to it - that it was too expensive to build and maintain in wartime conditions - would not apply. The design would be capable of further enhancement in the same way as the A1 without affecting its appearance - since it would rely on the leisure market for its justification appearance is an important commercial aspect of the project. It would be another 'pocket rocket'.

But as I said above, I do not expect A1SLT to build a further loco after the P2 is finished.

 

Would love the K3, or even an A5 please. A5 would be great for preserved lines.

 

A K3 with GNR cab would be interesting ,maybe the NRM could loan/donate their spare GNR tender to go with it.

 

I suppose it largely boils down to what element of the railway hobby most interests us. My primary interest is railway history, so personally I believe that our preserved railways should try to restore or recreate a selection of locomotives and rolling stock representing all periods of railway history. My own point of view is that we already have a good selection of designs from close to the end of the steam era; so, rather than spending money creating new-builds to fill the relatively small gaps from this era, we would do better to focus on pre-grouping, and particularly 19th century, designs. In my opinion, this should be an increasingly urgent priority since those pre-grouping engines which do survive are now becoming seriously geriatric, and hence ever more expensive to keep running.

However, I can understand why those who are more interested in the engineering side of the hobby would rather create a brand-new, improved steam locomotive. Personally, I think that such an exercise would be futile: diesels and electrics have clearly proved their superiority for the modern railway, so a new steam locomotive would never be more than an interesting science experiment. But if those who want to see such an engine can stump up the money to do it, then good luck to them.

However, I think that the majority of enthusiasts today are motivated by nostalgia. They're not interesting in advancing the technological frontiers or looking to the history books for inspiration; they just want to see the engines they "copped" as children. Hence, the vast majority of new build projects are aiming to re-create designs that survived in the '50s and '60s. Admittedly, there are a few really iconic projects that have managed to transcend this cult of BR-era nostalgia, like the building of the P2, or the re-streamlining of 6229. But I suspect my own pipedreams of seeing engines like a "Jenny Lind" or a DX goods will never be realised!

 

I would absolutely love to see a new built 19th century loco because, as you quite rightly point out, there aren't an awful lot of them left - something from the NSR would be nice, it would be a better thing to remember the railway by than the battery locomotive in the NRM anyway. But this was brought up some time ago, and I'll say the same thing now I did then, older locos weren't as good a design, won't pull as much, be harder to make as less drawings exist because there has been even more time for them to be lost and will probably end up being more expensive sharing few parts with anything else. it just becomes so much more difficult the further back you go as of course as time went by designs improved.