6229 Return to steam rumour

Remember it will be able to run a 6220 Coronation in the stream lined form, and sold to the public that it was run in the USA and avoided the U boats when it came back to the UK during WWII.

 

And yet, there was an article in Steam Railway written by someone involved in the 82045 group who would like to see a replica of 46256 built, making four. The following issue featured a surprising number of supportive letters. I agree with Cartman that Duchesses are marvellous locos, but you do have a good point - how much work is there on the main line?

 

It's interesting how 6229 fits in given the discussions that have sprung up in several places recently about a trend towards premium events on heritage lines, the prices charged for Flying Scotsman trips etc. etc.

My own entirely subjective view is that, fitted with carapace (*), 6229 has the potential to be a real icon and - given suitable marketing - to some extent take over from where FS leaves off, with the ability to draw in a significant non-enthusiast crowd in addition to enthusiasts. Without carapace (**), it's just another 8P and would be fishing in the same pool as whichever other large locos existed at the time - and, given a very very finger-in-the-air timescale of when we might see such things, I'd suggest in a straight competition for marketing buzz against a Gresley P2 (and who knows, an original condition Merchant Navy), it would come off distinctly second best. Whereas in streamlined form, there is a definite attraction and USP.

(*) Other terms are available
(**) Like I said, other terms available

Tom

 

I would love to see a streamlined Duchess in action. Most of us are too young to have seen them in LMS days, but even the old black and white photos are quite inspiring. Even as a static exhibit I think she looks great.

Am I right in thinking that the Duchesses need to be cut down slightly to conform to the loading gauge? How will this affect 6229's casing and appearance?

As an aside, I think 6024's appearance is spoiled by the cut down fittings. A necessary evil, I know .....

 

I believe they have to be cut down from original condition but 6229 has run in preservation and was in streamlined condition when she travelled from Tyseley to York on the mainline. (4)6235 would need modifying as shes in original condition

 

Multiple Black 5s seem to have done well on the main line. Admittedly the Jacobite keeps at least two well employed.

 

6229 in streamlined form will have certain image advantages over any other Duchess, and as someone else pointed out the only other mainline registered one will be at the end of its certificate by then, and the NRM most likily won't be footing the bill but will be getting an icon restored so they win on both counts, and it gives the NRM another high profile working engine, what a choice, you can either have 60103 or 6229, prehaps even a rail tour that has one doing an outward leg of a tour to york, and the other working the return leg, i would hate to imagine what the ticket prices would be, but it would sell out no mistake .

 

To see a streamlined Duchess belting along would be something else, especially if they ' Duff up' a matching support coach. At the end of its stint , or even before, it would need a repaint ( black undercoat, followed by Blue ? ). Maybe something to do in a few years time when Scotsman is less of a novelty.

Apart from the cost and logistics involved with double crews a pair of Black 5's have a number of plus points
Yes they are well looked after, but also in terms of the reserves of power they have , the speed limits imposed on them and they aren't generally on huge trains they aren't being pushed so hard. Perhaps as a result they been very reliable and there a very few places out of gauge for them. Indeed if they were the booked MP for your tour you'd be pretty confident it would happen. Wonder how the costs stack up against one of the ' Class 8's ?

 

Multiple Black 5s don't have the wow factor for the general public. Enthusiast railtour riders like them because if a tour is billed as being hauled by the Riley pair then you can be pretty sure that's what you will get and I've lost count of the number of times they've stood in for other locomotives

 

Really? So we have imagined all those difficulties caused by a lack of working Class 8 mainline approved steam locomotives, the need to have 'a diesel on the back', trips cancelled etc. - a mass delusion for large numbers of members of this forum!?!

I am in shock

Yet again, somebody makes a comment (OK, a arguably 'W.I.B.N'. comment perhaps - albeit prompted by a rumour that it is planned - but I was under the mistaken impression that the mainline scene needs more Class 8 Locomotives, although I now stand corrected!) and gets shouted down with 'well fund it yourself then' - perhaps another widespread delusion is that this is a discussion forum?

Steven

 

The biggest problem which has been sort of hinted at is cash. There is only a limited amount "floating" round out there. So if Hamilton had been overhauled in it's previous incarnation, it would have diluted the market to a degree by taking cash from the owners of Sutherland. Hense the streamlined option being the "get out of jail free card" on that front. Another problem with many of the big engines like the Duchesses, A4s, Tornado and Flying Scotsman, is that they are to a degree restricted as to the lines they can run on at a reasonable speed. Granted 'Scotsman Gresley, Bittern, Union of South Africa and Tornado have been down the Whitby Branch but only as far as Grosmont/NYMR [OK Gresley made one trip to whitby but never again]. As for the Black 5s out there theycan and do run pretty well all over the National Network, being small and flexible enough to cover the vast majority of track that's available Penzance to Wick/Thurso north south. Holyhead to Lowestoft east west so to speak, just picking 4-5 places to represent the Network.

 

Firstly, 6229 was overhauled in its previous incarnation, which if my memory serves was prior to any thoughts of 6233 going anywhere near a main line. As regards Cl 5's and their undoubted capabilities,
with respect, this has no bearing on the rumoured possible return of the 'only' streamlined Princess Coronation in existance, horses for courses comes to mind and I certainly would not expect to see it working out of Whitby.

 

Exactly. The last time 6229 was a runner, she was the ONLY runner, with 6233 being in a museum piece at the Midland Railway Centre, before that Bressingham [where she shuffled up and down a shortish demo line] and Butlins [though I'm not sure which camp]. It still though doesn't get round the fact, that there's only a finite amount of cash out there to fund the operations.

 

Hope this is more than just a rumour...
Will cutting her down have buggered the draughting ?/ smoke clearing abilities ?
because if so a double Kyllchap and extra smoke deflectors will be needed (allegedly)

 

Not sure 'she' was cut down, I think that had already been done, I think it was her Party Frock that was tweaked to fit inside the 'envelope'.

 

Party Frock now? Right, I'm going to start referring to it as "the cowl"

 

You must be that cowl chap. ! (groan)
Rather fond of the term 'Air smoothed casing'
perhaps 'Air stream casing' more descriptive here

 

Solid pun, that. Bit niche, but no need for a groan.