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44767 at Butterley for the Winter

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by mike1522, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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    I think this is great news for this unique black 5 because it says on prlct's site that major work shall be carried out while the locomotive is there. Does anyone know more?
     
  2. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    I believe that she is being prepped for a return to the ML going by the headline on the front of the new issue of Heritage Railway out on Thursday. I had an email preview of the next issue sent to me today and it mentions 44767's return to the ML.
     
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  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    And a very sensible use of PRCLT manpower rendered available by the lack of winter maintenance of 46233 this time.
    It could be another loco for Steam Dreams, if it returns to Norfolk, or possibly another Jacobite loco for 2015? It will certainly be terrific to see 44767 at full chat again on the main line.
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    In that case we must pray for no diesel assistance. It's been many a year since I went behind 4767 on the big railway.
     
  5. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    With Ian Riley on this, you cant beat a Black Five
     
  6. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    2015.. year of the 5 ??

    44767, 44871, 44932, 45212, 45231, 45305, 45407...

    but how many is too many ? it's been a while since 45305 ran mainline now..but theres scope for a killer railtour there though..
     
  7. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    And maybe paired up with stablemate 76084 soon?
    A new pocket rocket black 5 duo to come.
     
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  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    How's about 1 does the Cornish leg of The Great Briton and another takes it wherever it finishes up in scotland this year? Meanwhile various others could do the other days of this tour :-D
     
  9. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    I think you could be right.
     
  10. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    And 44767 is the GTi version too
     
  11. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    It was stuck at K&WVR in the summer due to West Coasts ban ans missed its book turns on the NWCE.

    According to the latest Heritage Railway 44767 and 76084 are both subject to negotiations for new long term hire contracts at the NNR.
     
  12. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Makes sense for the Cromer service, with 61306, gives 3 for the service (that needs top and tailing), so I presume there maybe a few more that might migrate that way
     
  13. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    I believe I read the B12 was being considered for the Cromer service, subject to raising funds for the necessary equipment.
     
  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Without trying to sound ignorant is it slightly more powerful? Is it a bit more free running than a 'standard' (if theres such thing) Black 5?
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    IMHO, 44767 is definitely stronger than a run-of-the-mill Black 5. I reckoned on it being a coach better when at the NYMR. i.e., you could take 8 with relative ease whereas 8 with a normal Black 5 is putting it at the limit.
    As for there being a 'Standard' Black 5, the others mat be the same but every one is different; certainly the case with 44767, 44806, 44871, 45110, 45212, 45407 & 45428. Still to try the rest!
     
  16. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Cheers Steve always wonder what those at the sharp end think of their various steeds. Though I dare say what some folks think may contain a few expletives!
     
  17. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Strange thing is that when 4767 was tested on the Rugby Plant, the report was very unfavourable, saying that the power output was lower than other Black Fives tested. This came as news to the crews regularly using her, most of whom felt she was one coach better than a Walshaerts geared engine, which were heaps better than the Caprottis. A similar view followed her - justifiably - into preservation.
     
  18. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I think I've read somewhere that the GWR's 2-cylinder locos with Stephenson gear were/are better at slogging up hill while the 4-cylinder ones with Walschaerts were/are better at running fast; something to do with the amount of lead (?) changing or not changing with cut-off settings. That might be part of the explanation of a discrepancy between test results on the plant and crews' experience.
     
  19. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Yes, with Walshaerts gear, the lead was given by the piston's stroke via combination lever and was therefore constant for any setting of the reverser. The lead for Stephenson's gear derived directly from the two eccentrics and varied with the cut-off. The GWR set it so that, at full cut-off, the lead was actually negative, making their engines very strong at low speed. 4767, I believe, was set up similarly.
     
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  20. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    That's exactly what a very helpful and knowledgeable man told me when I was looking round the loco works at Ropley during the recent Mid Hants Gala. -i.e., their engine, 45379, may be one of 18 preserved black fives, but each one has its own idiosyncracies. Of course, 44767 has Stephenson valve gear, which makes it a bit more different than the others, but 45305 was always reckoned to be a "Black Five Gti" and a bit better than most of the others for some reason. Am I not right in thinking it had a good reputation in the final years of its BR service? Also, I'm intrigued as to why 44871 usually leads 45407 when they run in tandem. If they were both identical, this would seem rather illogical.

    I've always thought it is a shame that neither 44686 nor 44687 survived into preservation. Personally, I don't think the double chimney and high running board improved their looks, but I am intrigued as to how they performed compared with other black fives.

    Going back to the theme of this hread, it would be good to see 44767 on the main line again, and 76084 for that matter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014

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