10A Carnforth MPD

Whilst powers such as Urgent Works Notices and Repairs Notices do exist and are used by many authorities much depends on the appetite of the Council (and specifically the Councilors) to proceed with such processes which have cost implications for the LPA in many cases. From personal experience as a Conservation Officer in a number of Authorities certain LPA's are very keen and prepared to use such powers, others just won't even consider the idea.

It is correct however that the National Planning Policy Framework contains at paragraph 130 specific provision that states that where there is evidence of deliberate neglect this should not be a consideration in reaching decisions regarding uses or demolitions. Finally also should an application for demolition be received Historic England would be a statutory consultee.

 

Like this? (see link - if it works)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-8billion-luxury-flat-redevelopment-risk.html

The thing is, the Battersea towers are seen as an iconic part of the London skyline, and in a massive development like this restoration can be made a planning condition with the necessary resources available.

Dave

 

Yes indeed Dave, the only way to "save" the chimneys is to remove and then rebuild them. I understand that the contractor has tried numerous methods of repair over a 15 year period to try and save the chimneys, but none worked, hence the decision to start demolition and build replicas. A circular chimney is a fairly straightforward structure compared to the Ash and Coaling Towers at Carnforth. As much as the the Carnforth structures are part of the local skyline, GWR4707 has outlined the probable fate for them, unless there is a major policy change in years to come or the will and funds to preserve them for a while longer.

Cheers

Alan

 

Imagine it will be a condition of the planning permission or included in the s.106 which runs with the land.

 

I see the point your making about why would Mr Smith want to invest time and money in to repairing the coaling tower at Carnforth. Can anyone confirm that WCR own Carnforth depot site or does WCR lease the site from Network Rail.


Cheers

 

There is a humongous amount of "history" attached to the, er, re-development of Battersea Power Station. As you imply, fortunes have been created out of the scheme death of several participants over the decades since the power plant closed.

Cheers,

Alan

 

Happy happy days. I was a volunteer there from 1969 to 1984. No membership required, if you loved steam and wanted to work, you were made welcome by Peter and Betty Beet. The fitter, Ken Cottam was time-served at the depot and could turn his hand to anything including the 'foreigners' from the Eastern, Southern and Western Regions! In the early days, Wife's and Mother's turned out on Sundays to cook lunch for the growing number of volunteers. Memories that particularly stand out include taking 44871 to the Morecambe railfair in the summer of 1971 where she was kept in light steam around the clock. The following year, steam returned to the Barrow line with two '5's' doing the honours, each on a seperate packed train. Camping out on a freezing cold night in a lay-by near Ripon to make sure nobody stole bits off the 012 pacific (as it was then) on it's low-loader!

The 80 tank in the collection was owned by Ulrich Kroll who was the Loco Superintendent for the Essen Region. He was a great steam man and personally issued two footplate permits for me to ride on 044's (on coal trains) from Wanne-Eickel Depot in 1975. He even arranged for a Driver ( Artur Engelmann) who could speak English! They were amazing footplate experiences and I managed to return the favour by arranging a cab trip for Artur up the WCML on an 87 and on 61306 running shuttles from Carnforth - Grange...he liked the B1 a lot!

Oh how I miss those days!

 

I think they are obliged to rebuild one chimney before they are allowed to demolish the others, but it would still look ridiculous. If that sort of behaviour is common there ought to be requirement to lodge the restoration funds before demolition starts.

It doesn't look too good for the Carnforth tower does it though, if demolition and building a replica is the only viable option. Who would fund it and why?

Dave

 

Given the amount of money being spent in the Battersea Power station area, I have no doubt that the towers will be,rebuilt/retained.

 

Even if the millions could be found for "moving" the Carnforth buildings, which would have to be "salvage reusable parts, demolish and build new primary structure", they are not precisely things of beauty, and I cannot imagine any line getting planning permission to re-erect them, nor any line wishing to generate the sort of hostility from their neighbourhood that would result if they did.

 

I'm not an engineer and so can only hazard a guess, but I would not be at all surprised to find that they are basically of steel framed construction with cast infill panels = remove the panels and there is quite likely to be a steel frame left that could be dismantled and rebuilt elsewhere. Not an object ofd beauty, but still recognisable as part of the skyline of an earlier industrial age, just like gas holders, mill chimneys and the like!

 

Most rebar is already going rusty before the concrete pour takes place so I'd dread to think of the condition of Carnforth shed when you add the acidic atmosphere of a typical loco depot! Incidentally similar problems are increasingly becoming a problem on many of the remaining Southern pre cast platforms and buildings.

Dave

 

It is often the case with such enabling development schemes that the developer is obliged to lodge a development bond before works commence.

 

Its also a lot easier to fund such remedial works when one is completing an associated development which shows commercial returns, however unless Lancaster CC are inclined to allow WCRC build houses (or other viable development) on part of the wider Carnforth site (which would incidentally be brownfield land - see other discussion) they would link the two as an enabling development scheme.

 

Luxury penthouse conversion - in the coaling tower! Any takers?

I'm also reminded of a report I read of the coaling plant being used, perhaps for the last time, on some date in the 70s or 80s. Because the plant wasn't in regular use the coal came down accompanied by a large quantity of pigeon guano - which apparently burned quite well.

 

Luxury penthouse..... in Carnforth

 

Those were the days. Carnforth must have been on the "to do" list of countless enthusiasts back then.

 

Carnforth and Hest Bank on the same day.

Happy days.