West Somerset Railway General Discussion

A station on a trading estate where presumably there is a potential to sell meals to workers and visitors to the various businesses. Has anybody tried running a cafe on the estate? As others have pointed out some railways seem to operate such venues even when trains aren't running another example being the one at Quorn and Woodhouse which isn't obviously next to major passing trade but presumably still pulls people in. Is this another case of the world being different in Somerset?
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/station-facilities/butler-henderson-cafe-quorn-woodhouse/

 

Errmm. I think perhaps someone hasn't actually been to the station at Bishops Lydeard. It is not "on a trading estate" but I guess it amuses some people to say it is.

In any case, the Lydeard station cafe is open for much of the year so I guess the "trading estate" (!) people already know about it. And perhaps use it. Or not. Either way, the fact no-one else has "tried running a cafe on the estate" kinda proves the demand is not there.

And it seems the majority of heritage railway stations do not provide full hot meals from early morning to late evening every day. Not even the splendid one at Quorn.

Steve

 

When photo charters have been run the Bessemer has opended at 6.30am for breakfasts.

 

All well and good but perhaps you are unaware of the farm shop located on the road a hundred yards from the WSR public car park?
That provides some take away type food for a range of callers including other nearby businesses (hardly a "trading estate").

 

If I go from London to visit the South Devon Railway & the timetable permits then I will have breakfast in their tea room ("Our ever popular breakfasts feature free range eggs, honey roast sausages, prime back bacon combined with hash browns, baked beans, tomatoes and toast. Freshly cooked to order, with a pot of tea or coffee, they are real value for money.")
If I go from London to the Dartmoor Railway, I have breakfast in the station at Okehampton ("Feast on traditional favourites such as Full English Breakfasts, Fish and Chips and Full Afternoon Teas. There is also full selection of lunches, childrens menu and lighter snacks, truly something for everyone to enjoy.").
If I go from London to the WSR, I end up having breakfast at McDonalds at Sparkford on the A303. If I could get something more at BL then I'd happily spend twice as much with the railway as I spend at McDonalds.

 

Agree. The main point of coming to a preserved railway is the train ride and (at least for me) the atmosphere of steam and restored stations. I eat to live, not the other way round!

John

 

How many more explanations do you need to to have to understand the realities of the current situation at BL? At the present time there simply is not room to provide the service you demand. Everyone is aware of this and that hopefully this will change. However, it is not going to be a quick, easy or cheap task to provide them. It also will have to be shown that it is economic to do so. If your main criteria for visiting the WSR is a full cooked breakfast then perhaps it is simply not for you. No tourist attraction can provide facilities that suit everybody. Unfortunate but sadly true. By the way there is a Little Chef at Ilminster at the junction of the A303 and the A358.

 

Tom, In many ways I suggest that the comparative space for eating establishments at East Grinstead and Sheffield Park stations mirrors that at Bishops Lydeard and Minehead. ie there is space for extensive eating establishments at Minehead and Sheffield Park that inter alia can provide breakfast. Whilst not open as much as the 'Bessemer', the Minehead 'Turntable Cafe' has increasingly been seeking to trade outside of 'train running hours'. The criteria presumably are: does the trade justify the increased operating costs ? , and to recognise the existence of other outlets in the Town.

I, when a regular on the Bluebell always enjoyed lunch at Horsted Keynes, wonderfully atmospheric. But I believe over the years there have regularly been questions as to whether the facility was financially viable.

In an attempt to bring this discussion to some sort of conclusion:

There is currently no space at Bishops Lydeard, outwith the QB set, (Barrie has already explained that this is subject to staffing constraints etc ) in which a full meal service could be provided.

The West Somerset Railway has 22.5 miles of track and 10 stations to maintain. (A priceless unique asset I suggest). This is a priority and currently 'cash' is short. A new profitable prepared food outlet would be good, one that requires significant capital outlay (as anything at BL would) less so. Sorry folks.

Michael Rowe.

ps the nature of the Plc as a commercial organisation is irrelevant. It is subject to the normal mores ie cash in vs cash out. 'Cash is King'.

 

Can I suggest you try the Premier Inn chain, their restaurants are open to the public ? They do a Full English, and other options, for about nine quid. Rather like Little Chef they are not perfect but quite acceptable if you need to stoke up at the beginning of the day. There are three in Taunton. Check their website for menus and locations.
Mike

 

Sadly Tom seldom misses an opportunity to compare the WSR unfavourably with his precious Bluebell Line, or to make disparaging remarks about why Somerset is different. The placement of both BL and the Bluebell facilites is like comparing the proverbial chalk and cheese. Tom knows very well that at the present there simply is not the space at BT nor is it a location that could support a separate pub like the Bessemer. Neither is the nearby small industrial estate big enough to make cafe serving full meals viable. I am not entirely convinced that even if the proposed Station Fam developement actually took place that it would attract sufficent customers to make a full scale eatery or pub commercially viable.

 

One of the points (to me) of Natpres is that we can all come on here are share experiences from our respective railways to mutual benefit. As someone who is not involved in the WSR or Bluebell there is considerable interest for me in seeing how others do things and the reasons.

I didn’t detect any notion of “unfavourable” comparison, merely that Tom (as he always does) contributes an alternative view with reasoning and logic. As you say the Bluebell and WSR are chalk and cheese but is it useful to share “how it’s done elsewhere?” Absolutely.

Regards

Matt

 

Indeed so. I was simply correcting a point where it had been suggested that it wasn't possible to get breakfast every day when in fact it is available. I was quite careful to say "I’d accept though that different solutions would work for different railways", i.e the economics and constraints are different in different places. I can't see how anyone could read that comment in any way as an intended slight.

Tom

 

Those of us involved with individual railways tend to be defensive when they are criticised by 'outsiders', no matter how critical of them we may be ourselves the rest of the time!

I think some of the reason this debate has had such 'legs', and certainly the reason for the recurring 'ah, but we know "it's different in Somerset"' comments is the way that any comment of the West Somerset that some on here perceive as criticism is ferociously put down. Far from an attitude of 'the customer is always right', it seems to be 'the customer is always right as long as they agree everything is wonderful - if they don't, they are an idiot'.

Believe me, jumping enthusiastically to the defence of the Railway one loves and considers to be 'my railway' (which indicates 'belonging' not 'ownership') is something I can understand, but (sometimes bitter) experience has taught me you actually serve you Railway best by taking a deep breath, explaining calmly the difficulties that give rise to the commented on position but also be willing to take on board the comments made. That way, dealing with feedback in a positive but realistic manner can make those commenting feel 'included' not 'repelled'!

In such cases, 'attack' is not the best form of 'defence'!

Steven

 

Deliberately separate comment on the issue from on how it has been responded to!

Experience has taught me that care is needed to ensure catering is profitable. In part, I can have some sympathy with the 'it's part of providing the service' angle - provision of both buffet cars and station tea rooms is a part of what Railways have done for many years and I have seen it argued that such provision, along with the full on-train meal provision, is part of 'recreating the past' for passengers (and hence core, educational activity for a charity).

That said, with care, catering can and should be profitable but sadly 'care' often means a restricted menu that may well not include full meals. Certainly, my experience suggests that snack type food from a trolley or a tea room with 'warmed' as opposed to hot food as a maximum, but sandwiches, pasties and cakes also, that can be staffed by one or at most 2 people can be rather more lucrative than a tea room serving breakfasts and other full meals most of the day that ends up with 4 or 5 staff at peak times.

However, I also accept that 'care' can allow a carefully selected full mean with fewer staff and therefore greater chance of profitability. I have previously (and controversially) questioned whether most passengers would be looking for a full meal, or whether the demand is mainly from staff (and certainly when I was a working volunteer, being able to have a main meal in a lunch break was advantageous). I suspect the demand for hot breakfasts and main meals is also greater amongst enthusiasts than families, and day trippers than holiday makers who are probably in a B & B. Hence, reacting to the expected customer base at a particular time (e.g. more full meal options at Galas or out of peak times when demand may be greater and handling may need less staff), flexibility in menu offer and looking at ideas such as a waitress service tea room with takeaway snacks and drinks from a kiosk can all combine to serve customer requirements profitably.

Commercial attractions tend to have many catering outlets offering differing menus and types of food and service.

Making the customer feel wanted is key - a quick story. Last week, my partner and I were travelling back from a few days away, and called in at a roadside cafe she knew. There was a notice with 'Main Meals' listed, and at about 11:25, having decided a main meal would be a good idea and against the full breakfast that served until 11:30, we ordered plaice and chips. The waitress took the order, disappeared to the kitchen only to reappear after a couple of minutes and say that Main Meals weren't available until 12:00 - were we happy to wait? By now it must have been about 11:31, so when we mentioned the breakfast. we were told 'no, that's finished now'! We did have a drink and a scone but I think both of us felt like just walking out and we certainly passed due 'comment' and asked it to be passed to the owners - a letter may well follow! This wasn't a Railway connected establishment, although I have heard similar tales about other places that are!

Steven

 

If you travel to the WSR via the motorway you will pass Sainsbury's and ASDA in Taunton both of which offer a cooked breakfast.

 

You are right, Steven, except I can't accept the "customer is always right" bit. If that were so, every heritage railway in the land would have a Changing Places toilet at each terminus and probably every station in between. No matter how much I, as a customer, requested such a facility, there is not one heritage railway in the land with a Changing Places toilet. But I don't think I have ever demanded a heritage railway install a Changing Places toilet because the "customer is always right" - although a heritage railway would get more visitors is they had one or two on site.

Of course the requirements and expectations of the customer is of prime importance and no request/demand should be ignored, but equally the customer sometimes must also accept the limitations of what is on offer (see paragraph above). Sure, they can then choose to spend their money elsewhere - we all do this every day - but we can't be all things to all people all of the time. We have a grand "product" and to our credit thousands of people choose to travel on the Railway every year. So we must be offering most of the things that most of our visitors want.

Many WSR people have indeed tried hard to quietly explain why things are the way they are on the WSR. Just because things can't change does not mean we are not paying attention or not agreeing. Most WSR people on Nat Pres are not speaking officially for the WSR. And that's why folks need to contact the WSR Plc with any concerns, complaints or ideas. Thanks.

Steve

 

The conversation about food is very interesting but, as I am supposed to be on a diet, its also slightly upsetting as well. All the talk of big breakfasts, burgers and pasties. However, in a spirit of peace and reconciliation, may I offer the attached file which is perhaps vaguely relevant . It has nothing whatsoever to do with railways but may offer a bit of mild amusement to anyone who enjoyed the College rag-mag style of humour of yester-yearl Don't worry, its not vulgar!

 

Another version of essentially the same story concerns two swaggies in the Outback.

 

This post by Stephen adequately sums up much of the many debates here about the WSR/WSRA; not just food, the recent signs saga but most of the 10000+ pages. Many of those wishing to make a day out with the WSR do seem to find a good meal with the railway part of their days experience. You can go into nationwide 'restaurants' or supermarket food places any day of the week.
The 'different in Somerset' is not an ideal comment, whilst true, it appears that most WSR protagonists here seem to be from other parts of the UK!
Michael Rowe said cash was king, to me that is Supermarket talk, I believe, for what is basically a tourist attraction however 'olde tyme' it might look, it should be that the customer/passenger is king.

 

Michael Rowe said cash was king, to me that is Supermarket talk, I believe, for what is basically a tourist attraction however 'olde tyme' it might look, it should be that the customer/passenger is king.

Sorry, I don't agree, it is not "supermarket talk". It is a basic fact of business life, whatever kind of business you are in and Michael was pointing out that cash is short.