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Atlantic Coast Express UKRT/MNLPS 23/09/17

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Where's Mazeppa?, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Shaggy

    Shaggy Part of the furniture

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    Shhhhhh. Don't tell everyone! ;)

    To be honest, the GWR was running slightly late which made the regulating decision slightly easier, but as said in my previous post, these things aren't just thrown together at the last minute. Yes, there was some improvisation but a local plan had been drawn up with the assistance of the MNLPS and it proved to be the right one minimising delays through Salisbury and over the West of England "Premier" line!
     
    gricerdon, Mick45305, D1002 and 4 others like this.
  2. Arun Valley

    Arun Valley New Member

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    These are my notes on a pleasurable day out (as usual: a bit after the event, so apologies for any repetition).

    The change of starting station did not bother me in the slightest as l had not previously ‘done’ steam out of London Victoria, plus this is the easiest London terminus for us to get to. The revised routing was not an issue as it meant ‘clearing’ steam on ‘new’ track. The earlier start meant we were on Platform 4 of Three Bridges (after driving there) to catch the 05:47 to Victoria, arriving on time. We wandered around to the South Eastern half of the station to see a WCR Class 57 noisily turning over at the buffers on Platform 7, which then powered away apparently on time.

    I overheard a chap (presumably from UKRT) saying that the loco was now ‘on’ the train; about the time we should have departed. I am not aware of the reason why the stock was late departing Wembley. Eventually, a Class 67 brought the stock into Platform 2. We boarded straight away as l judged we might be away a quickly as possible so a walk up to the front and back may be pushing it. For the record we were in Coach ‘G’.

    The Class 67 sprang into action and we were off 13 minutes late. I am not sure where the Class 67 dropped off, probably almost up to the level of Grosvenor Bridge. Even though we stopped around Stewarts Lane Junction we technically made up time, arriving at Clapham Junction 8 minutes late. We lost some more time to Whitton (46) but made most of it up - helped by a 69 through Ashford (Surrey) - arriving only 3 late at Staines. When we made it onto the SWML we had recovered sufficiently to be on time. All speeds are taken from my not so modern (more ‘mildly intelligent’ than ‘smart’) mobile ‘phone.

    After slowing to pass through Woking we hit the 70s for the first time at Farnborough (72), Fleet (75) and Hook (72). We made our final passenger pick-up stop at Basingstoke, then began the dash to Salisbury: Overton (72), Whitchurch (78), Andover (77) and Grateley (69). I was expecting a much slower approach to Salisbury, but we swept into the tunnel at 47, arriving 7 minutes early. Post analysis gives an average speed of start (Basingstoke) to stop (Salisbury) of 61 mph (was at 65 before the brakes came on).

    This was my fifth time this year stopping at Salisbury behind steam this year (3 tours). I was expecting the loco to be watered (as usual) at platform 4 from a tanker in the car park, but there was no sign of this. Whilst standing at the platform, what looked like a camera support was moved from the driver’s window to the handrail. Later – all of a sudden – 35028 moved light engine away from the platform. We were agog at how quickly it moved away (even with some slipping). 35028 then shunted to the opposite side of the station to take water. After this, 35028 was moved back to head the train in good time to be away on time.

    After a short pause (pathing) at Gillingham, we entered the tunnel (at 44) to have the carriage filled with smoke - which took a little time to clear. After passing Sherborne (75) we stopped at Yeovil Junction (pathing) where – from the MNLPS website – the tender was topped-up from the railway centre. Following that we moved on to Chard Junction for both an up and a down train to pass. From there we dropped down to Axminster (64) to a maximum of about 70 to hit the climb to Honiton Tunnel. During the ascent 35028 could quite clearly be heard and - probably due to the fact we were near the rear of the train, there was a small acceleration into the tunnel (31).

    Following the final water stop on the outward journey at Honiton good progress was made: Whimple (73), Cranbrook (74) we had to wait to cross Exmouth Junction due to being early. A good proportion of the train chose to get off at Exeter Central, but we stayed on for the drop down to St. Davids.

    After seeing 35028 move the train into the yard (noting that it is good to see the level crossing still has an attendant) we made our way to The Imperial, but did not remain there as food would have taken too long (it was very busy). After walking into the centre we located the other Wetherspoons and about 15 minutes later we had food on the table. After lunch we had a quick look at the Cathedral, sadly seeing the remnants of the hotel that was engulfed by fire. A short visit to the quayside followed then it was a good walk back to St. Davids, arriving to see the train being propelled to the platform. I had to smile to myself as l was waiting for my travelling companion to use the facilities there was a couple who seemed perplexed as the end of a Mark I carriage entered the station (not being able to see what was pushing): “What’s that?”… “Is it a diesel?” …“I think so, but it’s very smoky.”

    The departure from Exeter St. Davids was on time. On the section where the M5 follows next to the railway there seemed to be some puzzled looks from passengers in the cars, but it was good to exchange a long wave with one of them. Tiverton Parkway was passed at 70, Whiteball Tunnel followed at 62. I was expecting a stop (crew change) at Taunton, but as we were doing about 70 not far away this was not to be the case. As a result of this and some excellent running [Cogload Junction (74) and Castle Cary (72)] we were 19 minutes early across East Somerset Junction. This turned out to be the last time we where on time or better. We had to wait at Blatchbridge Junction for a late-running service to clear the single-track section. I am not sure about what else could have been done as we needed to stop in the single-line section at Frome station, probably until time, which would block the line. The only way around this would have been if the watering point was by the ‘Up Frome’ North of the station but l am unsure if this location was possible. Anyway, the 70 or so miles of continuous (fast) running is ‘my’ personal best.

    The alteration to the advertised return route was slightly disappointing as it would be nice to have cleared steam Westbury – Newbury – Reading both ways. But the greater distance via Melksham and the possibility of a sprint over God’s Wonderful Racetrack (GWR) more than makes up for it.

    Leaving Frome 3 minutes late, the journey through Westbury; Trowbridge to Chippenham was a cruise with time to comment on the sights as they were passed. We manage a visit into the 70s (70 at Wootton Bassett Junction) until having to stop at Swindon. After setting off we had an excellent charge to the water stop at Milton Junction. I do not have any notes of speed at certain points as l could not tell exactly where we were as by then it was very dark outside. Data analysis provides an average speed from start to stop of 55 mph. This compares to the run l had behind Mayflower that averaged 54 mph over the same section.

    The run from Milton Junction to Reading was also entertaining: Cholsey (74), Goring and Streatley (77) and Pangbourne (78). After saying ‘goodbye’ to some passengers the section to Staines was probably better than if the train had been on time as little chunks of time were regained, helped by Winnersh (67), Ascot (66) and a slowing 68 through Virginia Water.

    The late running was trimmed by a shorted than timetable stop at Clapham Junction. If we did not stop for a train exiting the station at London Victoria we would have been back earlier than 22:15 (25 minutes late). It is weird as the three trips behind steam l have taken this year they have all been just under half an hour late back to the terminating station.

    After a little time at Victoria for photographs, we caught a train that left just after 10:30 and were home an hour later.

    It was a very good day out behind Clan Line - a trip length of 374 miles which is easiest the longest l have done – so my thanks to all involved. Definitely something worth being a part of.

    Here is a picture taken at Exeter St. Davids.
    Exeter_web.JPG


    For what it is worth, l have put together a document containing graphical representations of the GPS data, which is the attached file. I would not usually bother doing something like this, but l think on this occasion it IS worth it. I'll get my Anorak!

    Cheers!
    -SC-
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2017
  3. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    Well worth the effort of doing this, I can promise you. And a valuable cross-check against my own somewhat chequered efforts to create a set of comprehensive logs of the days running. And for that I'm very grateful

    So you are dead right, on this occasion it really was worth it. But please don't think "Anorak" - in its own way, this is just as legitimate and just as compelling a record of the day's events as any number of HD images and You Tube videos. Because as stunning a visual treat as Merchant 28 and the ACE undoubtedly was on the day, it was the performance of locomotive and crews that made this outing truly unique. And that's why your record of it is so important. IMHO !!
     
  4. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    Seconded! Those graphs tell the tale of the day very clearly and give a very good context to the many pictures and videos posted, so many thanks @Arun Valley
     
  5. kevinthecat

    kevinthecat New Member

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    I also traveled on UKRT's Atlantic Coast Express and logged proceedings with my 'smart' phone using GPS. I last time I traveled behind steam to Exeter was back in 2003 with 73096 which I also logged by GPS. Back then a friend put me on to the Railway Performance Society's horsepower calculator so I have dusted it off and attempted to plug in some numbers for the climb to Brewham since Clan Line's performance up the GW mainline was pretty exhilarating. I don't have a GW mainline gradient profile to hand and can't find one online so I have used the information posted here by 1020 Shireman to work out the average gradient over 4 miles to the summit but I have ignored the short section of 1 in 140. Speeds and time duration are from my GPS log. I have taken the laden weight of the train to be 465 tons and assumed the weight Clan Line to be 150 tons in working order. If anyone knows better please say! Finally the rolling resistance is a function of the carriage bogie types and these appeared to be predominantly Commonwealth but again easy to change if anyone knows for certain (I tried working it out from various online videos without success).

    So with all the above caveats the calculator says Clan Line was producing an average 2,160hp at the rail head, lets call it 2,200hp given the section of 1 in 140! This is impressive and must be equivalent to a Class 4 diesel locomotive (eg. a '47') flat out.

    Here are a couple of screenshots so all can see the numbers and assumptions.

    Brewham_hp.jpg

    Brewham_gradient.jpg

    Mike
     
  6. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    Just wait until she's fully run in.......
     
  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Mike

    There is a level bit through Bruton but at the point beyond of the line changing to 1 in 93 you then have three miles to the summit with the gradient changing to 1 in 98 with the last three quarters of a mile at 1 in 81 (where you get the drop off in speed). Each of these sections is separated by a short level bit of track. Over this distance I would suggest that the average gradient is steeper than your 1 in 135 estimate and if you were to narrow your calculation down to these three miles, then the DBHP will come out closer to 2300. Either way, it was a pretty good climb.
     
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  8. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    In your organisations database, have you got the rolling resistance of traction motors on a 'switched off@ Class 66? been trying to find out since the Easterling???.
     
  9. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    That's probably about right though I havent checked it using my old 'Law' formula. On your figures the IHP would be about 2,800 which is very high.
     
  10. kevinthecat

    kevinthecat New Member

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    I'm nothing to do with the Railway Performance Society. Probably best contacting them through their website. Mike
     
  11. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    On the MNLPS website during the overhaul there was a suggestion that the valve events had been adjusted as per the recommendations from the Swindon test plant. Does anyone here have any details of what changes were made? If this is the wrong thread then apologies.
     
  12. 8126

    8126 Member

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    I can't give full details, but the Swindon test plant recommendations for the rebuilt MNs concerned how much the valves should be offset from the ideal setting when cold, so as to ensure they approximated correct setting with the engine hot. One of the good features of the original Bulleid gear is that it drives the piston valve centrally in a low temperature region, so the valve setting is largely unaffected by heat (although plenty of other things seem to be able to play merry hell with the setting on a worn original). On the rebuilds the valves are driven from the rear in the conventional manner, but there's a bit of a twist. Because the outside cylinders are outside admission, the valve spindle will be heated most outside the valve heads, so you might expect the whole valve assembly to move forwards, thus favouring steam admission (and throttling exhaust) to the rear of the cylinder. The inside cylinder is inside admission, so the valve spindle will be most heated between the heads, thus increasing the gap between them and probably favouring the front of the cylinder.

    It was found after rebuilding that the rebuilds were developing a knock unknown on the originals. The Swindon test plant ascertained the above cause and recommended adjustments to the valve setting, which I believe were successful in eliminating the problem.
     
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  13. NeilL

    NeilL Well-Known Member

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    If you download and save as an Excel file it makes quite a bit of sense. Change the txt of the file to xlsx. (Cannot upload an Excel file)
     

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  14. thickmike

    thickmike Member

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    Thanks 8126 - that makes a lot of sense - I hadn't really considered the effect of changing the drive to the outside cylinders from middle to one end - not simple this valve gear stuff!!

    On the two trips in early July, firstly at Waterloo on the Pullmans and then at Sherborne on the return Sunset, Clan Line was very reluctant to move and it needed quite a bit of effort (quoting Wayne) to get her to ease back enough in order to be able to start - I know that three cylinder engines have these dead spots but wondered if the Swindon adjustments might have made them a little more prone?? Pure speculation on my part but I thought it was odd to suffer twice in two runs. Happy to be wrong!!
     
  15. Wayne

    Wayne New Member

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    As far as I am aware (and I can see this coming to bite me on the backside next time I'm on her), she hasn't got stuck since. It could be just part of the running in process and Rob (Waterloo) and me (Sherborne) were just unlucky.
     
  16. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    As far as I am aware Wayne you are correct. You solved the problem at Sherborne by carefully dropping her back which is the way it normally solved the problem in the days of steam. And yes it happened then a fair few times in my experience
     
  17. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    A bit belated, but I'm currently in the process of filing the records of my last few trips. This data has proved priceless, as it has allowed me to fill-in the sections I left blank on my timing sheets as a result of me forgetting my speed recorder on the day. May I say thank you so much for posting the graphs- they have enabled me to complete my record of what was a fantastic day out behind 35028. Hopefully, I won't be so forgetful on this weekend's trip to Bognor!
     

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