L & B today

Popped in this afternoon as I was passing.

Car park busy, people milling about, yet nine of us on the 15:00 departure and five including me using the catering outlet.

Lyn certainly has created interest, but, from my observations today; a selfish one.

I would love to know the percentage of fare-paying, contributing visitors, to those parasites that enjoy our hobby on the cheap.

 

3pm is quite late in the day though - how many of those people had ridden earlier?

I was at Woody Bay myself the previous Saturday and saw the opposite: the station was peaceful and almost empty whilst the penultimate train was out up the line, with just one photographer in the field past the car park. Myself and my darling lady travelled on the first and last trains of the day, and noted that at least half of the passengers on the penultimate service stayed on board for another final trip.

 

The same old: If you don't travel you aren't contributing nonsense. How do you know who's paid for what v who has contributed what and who is a free loader. There are times when I've bought a ticket and not traveled on say the mhr as I'm there to take pictures and I'm not the only one but to you I'd appear a free loader.

 

Perhaps I should have explained myself more fully. As I said, car park nicely full, and as I witnessed, People get out of car, see that Lyn not on service train, walk down to shed, sign says 'no shed tours', people walk back to car, take a few photos and leave.

On a brighter note, I can thoroughly recommend the sandwiches, was expecting the normal plastic ham and tomato made with sliced brown supermarket bread.

No, made from proper wholemeal bread, thick slices, with a coleslaw, salad and crisps. Lovely.

 

I don't own a camera myself, not even on a phone, and I'm not a linesider.

I understand the view that such people are not contributing if they don't buy a ticket etc. but what is the value of the free publicity they generate? Have you never seen a photo of a railway in a magazine that made you want to go and see the thing for yourself? I know that a well taken photo stirs my interest and curiosity-and it is often those "out in the country" shots that particularly seem to show where a society has managed to capture the spirit of the original railway and make me want to visit. The dozens of spot-the-difference photos of Towyn Wharf station with dozens of tourists milling about (and are often the photos on the official publicity materiel) don't tend to stir the soul, whereas the parasitic fellow who walks a couple of miles across fields to photograph the morning train above Brynglas gets the picture that makes me want to go and find this unspoiled place and ride the train for myself.

 

Since we're on the subject of photography...

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy taking photographs as much as the next enthusiast - I have my own Flickr account after all! But there are times - particularly the big galas - where you can hardly move without getting in the way of somebody's shot, and you certainly haven't got a hope of actually getting close to an engine for a good look at it. If it's a visiting engine that you wouldn't normally have a chance to see, that can be quite frustrating. Most of the snapshots that people are taking will come out looking almost exactly the same. In this age where photos can so easily be shared on social media, does everybody really need to have their own shot, on their own camera? Also, those who are really serious about photography are now well catered-for by photo charters. So, wouldn't it be nice if we could all just stand back and enjoy looking at an engine with our eyes, not through a camera lens?

So, I'm going to propose a radical solution: on gala weekends, railways should appoint a number of official photographers to record the event for posterity (I'm sure there would be no shortage of volunteers!)...and then ban photography, at least within station areas.

Thoughts?

*Retreats to a safe distance...!*

 

Great idea. Or construct ‘hides’ to put the photographers in so the rest of us don’t have to look at them.

 

These days even young kids have cameras in their phones, you are going to have fun banning photography.

 

Good point. But on the whole, sprogs doing selfies do so quickly and don't hang around like an Éminence Grise, growling at all and sundry with the termerity to be where their tickets give them the perfect right to be. Yes, I have come across some downright objectionable old goats with cameras and an attitude in my time!

Surely, there's some scope for photoshoot slots short of groups or individuals hiring a complete line? I like Miff's idea. "PW Huts" are one possibility for structures which would make ideal hide. Ditto some of the (more robust) stored stock. Where drainage allows it, could a few hides be dug out to permit ground level shots? There were several low-level trackside structures, or failing that, sleeper or "rail stack" built hides are a possibility. If photographers are willing to pay for enhanced access to prime spots, why not? The "Divine Right" freeloader variety can take a running jump! It all needs to be suitably funded, of course..... yer gets nowt for nowt! But there could be a steady, if unspectacular, income stream to be had.

Responsible photographer gets shots, joe public gets shot of photographers. I'd call that a "win-win"!

I think what peeves many fare paying passengers is the manner of some photographers. If I've just shelled out several quid for a train ride and some random misanthrop starts growling at me as though I've no right to stand on a platform, I know what my first reaction will be.

 

Most of the snapshots that people are taking will come out looking almost exactly the same.

Not necessarily -some people are naturally better photographers. Some people will want a photo with themselves/their kids beside the loco etc etc etc.

In this age where photos can so easily be shared on social media, does everybody really need to have their own shot, on their own camera?

What about people who don't do social media? What about people who don't own a computer? What about people on holiday who want a memory of their trip?

Also, those who are really serious about photography are now well catered-for by photo charters. So, wouldn't it be nice if we could all just stand back and enjoy looking at an engine with our eyes, not through a camera lens?

And what about those who can't afford to attend photo charters? Or those who can't attend because of distance of family commitments?

So, I'm going to propose a radical solution: on gala weekends, railways should appoint a number of official photographers to record the event for posterity (I'm sure there would be no shortage of volunteers!)...and then ban photography, at least within station areas.

Good luck with banning photography. You'll also have to ban smart phones. Not sure how legal it would be for you to take a camera or phone off a visitor, or to ask them to leave if they've paid their entrance fee/bought a ticket.


I'm not sure you've fully thought this out...


Keith

 

Ban photographers and loose potential passengers = less money.

 

It's not illegal. Lots of shopping centres ban photography, even in areas that seem to be completely public streets unless you notice the "this is not a public right of way" signs. Get your smartphone out and you won't be bothered; get an SLR or video camera out and security guards will rapidly descend upon you to ask you to leave the premises.

However, I doubt it would make for good publicity if a railway did follow this example!

 

Excellent! You could set them up about 250 yards away from the shed entrance, with an information board about an extremely rare locomotive that only comes out at dawn and dusk.

What's Chris Packham's phone number? I can see a BBC programme idea here for "Shedwatch" ...

Tom

 

A shopping centre can ban photography as you say, but there's a difference in banning it and actually manhandling a camera/smartphone off someone!

As you say it would make for extremely bad publicity if a railway banned photography and actively removed those who tried to take photos.

Keith

 

Well...yes and no. Actually, in my day job I work in a historic house which has restrictions on photography, so I'm well aware of the difficulties of enforcing such a policy. I intended my initial post more to spark a discussion than anything else.

In practice I suspect you are right that a complete ban would be unworkable and would arouse too much opposition from too many people. But I can't help feeling that we ought to come up with some sort of sensible system to at least manage photography on gala days, because personally I feel things have got to a point where it drives a lot of the fun out of such events. As 30584 has hinted, dedicated areas for photographers might be more practical, although I'm not sure how many station areas would actually have space for these; and of course, the changing light at different times of day could be an issue. Also, in a way they don't solve the problem as anybody who wants to get close to the engines and actually look at them would probably still find themselves blocking the "shot"!

Another example outside the railway sector was the Harry Potter studio tour...you couldn't even get near most of the exhibits because everybody wanted to take a selfie in front of them. At least that's one craze that hasn't yet caught on among most railway enthusiasts!

 

Possibly not amongst full-on enthusiasts, but you'd be surprised at how common it is amongst the general public. Though typically it is an "in-pose-take selfie-walk away" kind of activity. My entirely unscientific observation is that it is more common with younger visitors - say under thirty-ish - rather than older; and often young couples.

Tom

 

It's impossible to enforce such a ban even in a shopping centre or other privately owned property. During a charter with a London RT bus we were told by a security guard that we couldn't take pictures from the steps of the Royal Exchange. I was immediately put into awkward mode and switched on the camera monitor and told him that yes we can have a look and we carried on and ignored him. He got his notebook and said he would be taking our names and addresses, yeah right some hope of that.

Back to railways, any serious photographer will avoid stations like the plague on gala days so if you gets shouted at just ignore them, they have no more right to be there than you. A ban is just unenforceable and just wrong, there are already too many oppressive rules in the country interfering with our lives

 

Agreed that a ban wouldn't really be possible; however there is a part of me that thinks that photographers (or, to put it correctly, enthusiasts with cameras) think that they have a divine right without even acknowledging the presence of those who don't want to take a picture. At the SVR on Friday we chose to ride rather than lineside, and stood on the platform at Bewdley to watch Bluebell depart. Just as she whistled up, three guys immediately turned up & stood immediately in front of us without any thought, purely so they could take their pics (Bunker first, from about 6 feet from the loco - sure it made a classic shot!). Prompt complaints from the others stood next to us...

As long as everyone is considerate, I don't see the problem either way.

 

I stopped bothering with photos years ago. I realised I wasn't "in the moment" because I was too busy trying to capture the moment.... Then a month later I'd get the rather disappointing results back from prontaprint.
Before the internet I used to buy postcards-they were generally better than any photo I could take, and were cheaper than film and developing.
Fortunately, since the internet came along there's loads of parasitic freeloaders posting lineside photos....