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Future covered workshop and storage space (especially for carriages) ?

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by toplight, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    HOUSE!

    (Sorry - was playing Nat Pres thread drift bingo, and regardless of where they start, all threads eventually end up at GWSR Honeybourne extension plans ...)

    Tom
     
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  2. BrightonBaltic

    BrightonBaltic Member

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    Or Brexit... or a ceaseless succession of tangents... or the evils of WCRC... or "Hosking can fund it"... or paint wibble... ;-)
     
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  3. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Someone I know, with the benefit of an expensive education, learned French using the works of Sartre as set texts. Just as grim as it sounds so it seems!
    Paul H
     
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  4. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I laughed quite a bit at that!

    Fair points regarding the bus service.

    Paul, we don't varnish our coaches at all so no need to rub it off :) we found that atomised cylinder oil stained the varnish so badly we'd rather have slightly faded coaches than permanently stained ones. And with our nice paint shop, (which was also jam tomorrow but here we are today) giving a coach a new coat of paint is no biggy.

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  5. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Wot no Hamilton's Perfection paintbrushes, gold leaf lettering and coachlines then? Before "Train Story" (i.e. the carriage shed) came along, the IOWSR carriage fleet was fitted with tailored tarpaulin covers each winter which were removed each spring. This involved a deal of work but was better than no protection at all. H.M. The Queen had already inaugurated the carriage works which made carriage painting more predictable.

    Paul H
     
  6. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity, are there any hard plans about phase 5, like where it might be sited?

    Steve B
     
  7. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    She might have turned up for the opening but I bet you never see her when carriages need painting and there's hard graft to be getting on with...
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not that I am aware of. I can think of three possible locations along the line, but they all come with potential problems.

    Tom
     
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  9. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Indeed no but there is a picture of her acting as trainee guard!

    Paul H
     
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  10. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    No-one can be "in the know" regarding this extension - everything is speculation.
     
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  11. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Absolutely, but I think it's unfair to claim all the volunteers working hard to plan Broadway operations are just "guessing". They're not in the know, but they're not in the dark either.

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  12. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    I am sure the Broadway extension will be a big success and looking forward to travelling on it myself when it opens however the thread is about shed space for coaches/wagons/locos etc not extensions. Open a new thread if you want one on the merits of building extensions.

    It doesn't necessarily have to be a choice between a line extension or a carriage shed. Potentially as the Bluebell have done both can be done at the same time. This is particularly as a railway has to pay for an extension with their own money or donations/shares etc whereas a carriage shed can be funded potentially from lottery money or other grant funding and then constructed by contractors with only the final work such as track laying done by volunteers.

    I know obviously in the case of the Glouc Warwicks they have had big problems with embankment slips at Chicken Curve etc to deal with so I can understand why progress might have been delayed in their case.

    In my opinion if more shed space isn't constructed then we are going to see more and more linear scrapyards and more items actually scrapped. If you look at the Carriage Database many railways have scrapped a number of coaches and wagons already and more will follow if the amount of shed space isn't substantially increased. It is even worse if railways start putting pressure on owners about their unrestored vehicle.
     
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  13. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, a similar situation has happened and is happening, with some vintage aircraft that are not displayed under cover. There are exceptions, like the Victor and Nimrod at Elvington, which are constantly fussed over and ground run by dedicated volunteer crews, but several airframes have succumbed over the years.

    The 2 landslips on the GWSR are well documented, as is the cost of restoring them (which had an adverse financial effect on the Broadway extension and everything else for that matter)and the ongoing cost of drainage works (superbly carried out by the bogs and drains team on the GWSR I might add). Forget Honeybourne for now, the trackbed isn't owned by the GWSR anyway. Once a fund starts for a GWSR carriage shed, there'll be a cheque in the post from me.
     
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  14. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this in theory, but considering a railway like the GCR which scrapped a number of vehicles as "too difficult to restore" back in the 80s/90s, but has since accumulated some far worse specimens and is storing them for a rainy day (and indeed restoring some of them), I'm not sure that's necessarily inevitable. Indeed I know of at least one owner of a basket case who has actually been asked not to get rid of it.

    Nevertheless, we could certainly use a decent sized carriage shed, both to keep the restored vehicles nice and the unrestored ones hidden; the problem is where to put it. Arguably spending money on a bridge to link with the GCRN might actually open up some possibilities towards solving that problem, although I'll admit this is a lame excuse and an expensive way of doing it.
     
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  15. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed including the conundrum of service frequency as the line gets longer. If there is currently a 2 train service do you:

    a. accept that the frequency once extended will have to reduce making the journey perhaps less attractive to some
    or
    b. increase to a 3 train service which at a stroke adds 50% to the direct daily operating costs

    The assertion that increased "surplus" funds will result from simply extending the length of the line is certainly not a given.
     
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  16. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    The reality is that all vehicles that are stored outside are steadily deteriorating, getting rustier and rustier. Even say Mark1s that look restored, if you looked under the skin I bet many are rusty as hell.
    Often when they are 'restored' holes are just patched up and filled to resolve the worse damaged areas. Then it spends 10 more years outside and is patched up again. (if it is lucky). Few railways will say totally re skin them. Then you have the constant threat of vandalism. My own railway ( The Swindon and Cricklade) even had one half of the working thumper unit completely burnt out, the heat being so hot even the glass melted, (I had only been for a ride on it a week earlier)

    Many of the "too difficult to restore" often were quite good when first acquired, but 20 years outside and it finishes them off unless someone comes along who is really, really determined. The SCR again scrapped a Mark 1 that initially was good but 15 years later had smashed windows and then progressively got worse and worse until it finally went for the chop.

    You cant also do proper restoration work at all unless you have covered workshop space and with every railway there is never enough of that so vehicles don't get restored because there is no where to do it.
     
  17. T'Bogger

    T'Bogger New Member

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    Well thought I would blow the dust off this thread to see what happens....*cough, cough...

    Anyway, our little carriage group is looking at building a carriage shed and have started do ing a bit of research regarding cost to determine what the cost per carriage is to get one under cover. I did an internet trawl to see what carriage shed apeals there have been and worked out the cost per carriage. Here are my findings:

    Embsay & Bolton Abby Railway:
    Two carriage long extension to existing shed, two roads wide for four carriages - £40,000
    https://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/aboutus/carriage-shed-appeal
    Cost per carriage: £10,000

    RVP At the Great Central Railway, Rothey:
    4 road carriage shed to house 12 carriages - £180,000
    http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/shed/ShedAppeal.pdf
    http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/shed/
    Cost per carriage: £15,000

    Bluebell Railway:
    Dash for Cover – 5 road shed to accommodate 20 carriages, £350,000 raised so far.
    http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/trust/appeal/cfc_about.html
    They have an appeals page:
    http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/trust/appeal/donate.html
    Cost per carriage: £17,500

    Gwili Railway:
    A two road shed, four carriage long to accommodate 8 altogether. Total to raise appears to be £300,000
    https://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/gwili-railway-launches-appeal-for-new-carriage-shed/
    Cost per carriage: £37,500

    North Yorkshire Moors Railway:
    40 carriages to be stored in their proposed new shed that will be built in a field next to their line (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.2541247,-0.7732551,374m/data=!3m1!1e3). Cost estimated to be in the region of £3,000,000! Will include a major repair facility as well.
    https://www.nymr.co.uk/caring-for-our-historic-carriages
    Cost per carriage: £75,000!

    Mid Norfolk Railway:
    3 road wide shed to fit 9 carriages in. Strangely doesn’t say how much they are raising, but donating has benefits. They also have multiple appeals running too.
    http://mnr.org.uk/donations/shed

    I haven’t seen the VTC shed before, but found some piccies on the website below which looked rather well laid out for visitors to explore:
    https://news.kwvr.co.uk/2014/10/05/...r-carriages-for-the-autumn-steam-spectacular/

    A Couple of links to carriage shed facility pictures on various railways:
    North Norfork:
    http://www.nnr-engineering.co.uk/carriage-services/

    Llangollen:
    http://www.llangollen-railway.org.uk/pentrec&wshed.html

    We are still just starting out, but one thing that has gone through my mind is does anyone know what the ongoing running cost are for a carriage shed? Such as for shed maintenance, electricity, rates and other bills?

    Hope there is is knowledge and experience to share out there. If not, then I hope the above is useful info.
     
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  18. JWKB

    JWKB Member

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    As someone who is involved on the periphery of the Gwili project. What is interesting is that it is not a linear cost with building the shed i.e. a four road is not twice the cost of a two-road shed, so there is scope for the cost per vehicle to come down dramatically.


    As such most of the difference in cost is associated with the preparation of the site, the NYMR being a good example where the site is being built in an SSI and the whole site raised by 1m.


    I would suggest you get out and talk to people at different railways, we certainly found it useful when planning our shed.
     
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  19. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Well, you mention the high cost of the NYMR shed but that it includes land purchase and a major maintenance facility. The RVP shed at Swithland, by comparison, is purely for storage and I’m not even sure if there is power & lighting, and I think the GCR may have funded the trackwork separately (not sure on that point). So you are not comparing like with like. I’m also not sure if the appeal raised the whole cost or if some funding came from other sources.

    When you consider that it might cost £100k to restore even a ropey Mk.1, though, spending a bit more on delaying having to do so again seems eminently sensible.


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  20. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    The carriage storage shed at Rolvenden K&ESR was reported as costing £500 000.
    So with four roads of five coaches, cost per carriage £25 000.

    Includes site preparation on very soft ground, also reception sidings and run-round loop.

    Shed has electrically driven roller shutter doors and lighting, but no surfaced walkways, not equipped for working on vehicles, for storage only. It has been found necessary to improve ventilation from the original design to reduce condensation.

    Not clear whether the track works necessary are included within the quoted cost.
     

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