Brighton Atlantic: 32424 Beachy Head

Whilst I would dearly love to see timetabled steam... hell, a 'thumper' would do... from Brighton to Bluebell (though Hove would suit me better!), there are serious capacity issues on the Brighton line, which wouldn't be improved by the need to send locos round the Cliftonville Spur to reverse (the only access from West Coastway to mainline being halfway down platform 3 at Brighton!). The fact that the line suffers from higher than average weekend closures wouldn't help much either.

As a suitable new build, the Billinton K is right at the top of my list too. The one and only 'minus' being that it's not a tank loco. The L was a lovely design and a 'baltic' is a significant gap in the preservation stud, but those large drivers aren't best suited to 25mph operations.

Of pure Brighton designs, any of C2x, D1 or D3 has to be on the WIBN shopping list. All were archetypical long-lived secondary and branch line services. I'd add the Southern era I1x to the list too, but well behind the pure LBSC designs.

The Bluebell have the unrestored stock in hand to suit a Stroudley G, but somehow, a 2-2-2 seems unlikely..... and not just 'cos it couldn't authentically be seen in SR green, let alone BR black. AFAIK, none even carried the umber livery.

 

The Bluebell are going to have to run main line into HH, and there's nowhere to go at HH (either for the loco or the passengers!). Brighton is the obvious destination... but it would need a pretty speedy loco. Atlantic, Stanalot, the Bulleids, heck, maybe even the U-boats... all got big enough wheels to get going. Besides, WIBN to take an Atlantic back to the ECML and stretch its legs? Wibble...

 

I beg to differ. There's a jolly good curry house just opposite the station at HH! Seriously though, with all but the hourly BTN-ECR-VIC services stopping at HH, it's a pretty sound prospect. The bigger likely problem is funnelling car bound visitors from the A23 and A272 to suitable a suitable point (costs in HH make anywhere in town highly unlikely) without freeloaders pinching the parking spaces. A sniper probably isn't an option.

 

You know, it might not be quite authentic to paint a cut-down Brighton Atlantic in Umber, but it wouldn't hurt anyone.... It would still be almost right, and very handsome.
This is supposed to be a fun hobby, you know, we don't have to take it all quite so seriously. Especially as this loco effectively has no history, do any livery is just as authentic or inauthentic as any other!

 

I totally agree with this, I didn't even know that they were ever modified, it is a beautiful machine and will look great in umber, southern green or BR black,

 

Any crackerjack Photoshop whizz-kids fancy a go at putting one into Stroudley's Improved Engine Green?

 

The redevelopment plan for Haywards Heath does include a space for a potential Bluebell station, but we are talking a long way into the future. Even getting to Ardingly will require bridging the gap created by the demolition of Sherriff Mill viaduct. The Bluebell has looked at this and it can be done, but it will be neither cheap nor easy. ARC shows no inclination to relocate from the former Ardingly station building, so there's another challenge which the Bluebell will have to face.

Relatively speaking, the section from Ardingly to Copyhold Junction doesn't pose too many complications as it is only used by one stone train per day - and one which unloads and returns empty before a putatative first train from Horsted Keynes is likely to arrive. However, you've got to sort out either transfer of ownership from NR or agree some form of running powers and trains would have to operate in T&T mode if they were going to terminate short of the junction.

As for beyond, into Haywards Heath, you would be running on one of the busiest main lines in the country. Running WSR trains into Taunton would be a doddle by comparison. Going anywhere further, I guess it would be theoretically possible to run non-stop to Brighton with a 75mph-authorised loco without disrupting any other trains, but the costs of restoring a big-wheeled engine to run over NR, including all the electronics required, would be massive. As 30854 has pointed out, you've then got to run the engine round using the Cliftonville spur.

If the Bluebell was ever to be serious about breaking out onto NR lines, it would make sense to go for something a little less daunting - a through train to Oxted, for instance. This might just about be feasible even though it would require tender first working in one direction. Not impossible, as the line is less intensively used and trains don't go so fast. However, thus far, there has been no indication that the railway has the slightest desire to go in this direction and I would be very surprised if it changes its mind. The economics just don't add up. I think, therefore, that much as it would be good to see the Atlantic stretch its legs at speeds of more than 25mph, this will remain firmly in WIBN territory.

 

The 9F was 92134, till recently at Crewe and now at the ELR.

 

Would look as daft as rail blue with double arrow on tender

 

Naah.... that's got to be reserved for 'Blackmoor Vale' to haul the 4VEP

 

Pretty much all large 20th century LBSC designs received mods to bring them within the composite SR loading gauge. Fancy a game of 'Spot the Difference'?

 

There's Borde Hill Gardens just round the corner but beyond that there's little in the town. I still can't see how a Bluebell presence will be used at Haywards Heath. When the plans for the station redevelopment occurred the Bluebell were asked whether they wanted space for a station however with the building of a Waitrose supermarket and a multistorey carpark there is no space for anything other than using the NR platforms.

 

The LBSCR loading gauge was 13'6" at its highest on the centre line, radiused at 7'6"; maximum 9'0" wide. The SECR gauge was only 13'1" high, radiused at 5'9 1/16", 9'0" wide, which essentially became the SR Composite gauge. So height quite considerably reduced and, because of the larger radius of the cab roof on the LBSCR gauge, the cab corners had to be bought in quite considerably. Comparing large LBSCR locos before and after rebuilding, it is the chimney height, dome height (and shape) and the profile of the cab around the side sheets that tend to be the immediately obvious differences.

Incidentally, it isn't the driving wheel diameter that rules out an L class 4-6-4T: it is the fact that almost no drawings exist. Technically the Bluebell Long Term Plan already defines what the next project will be, though the LTP can always be revised and the next revision date is likely to be before Beachy Head is finished, so that could change. But I suspect that whatever ends up in the next iteration of the LTP will be definitive.

Tom

 

I actually think it looks better with the cut down cab. The LMS did something similar with some ex LNWR locos, but it was less obvious

 

That's your Midland leanings showing ...

Tom

 

Cartman is in good company, as Robert Billinton had those as well!
Here (No.3 on my personal LBSC WIBN list) is a D3:


The 'K' in original form and photographic grey, always puts me in mind of something colonial... perhaps Egyptian Railways... by which absolutely no critisism is implied. A very handsome and workmanlike machine in either guise IMO.

 

In one book by P. Ransome-Wallis there is a picture of an Egyptian 2-6-0 which looks just like a Brighton "K" save for Walschaerts valve gear, which, of course the "K" should have had. A great pity it was a boiler off an Ivatt Atlantic which showed up rather than one for an infinitely more useful "K"!

PH

 

Didn't a Midland draughtsman go to the SECR? Some of their later engines, like the N class had a Midland type smokebox door and the tenders were similar to Midland ones. Also, the L1 4-4-0 looked very similar to a 2P, but was a much better loco, by all accounts.

Triang took advantage of this too, by slightly modifying the L1 mould into a 2P and using the same tender on the 3F and L1! - I know, I've got one of each!

 

Yes, James Clayton was Senior Locomotive Draughtsman for a number of years at Derby before joining the SECR in 1914 and was latterly Maunsell's deputy; he was probably responsible for a certain Midland influence, especially in detailed design, in many Maunsell locomotives.

http://www.steamindex.com/people/clayton.htm

Tom

 

However you slice it, 'Beachy Head' is one hell of an outstanding acheivement, and I'm certain it will prove a crowd puller, plus being a great flagship loco for the Bluebell, as dear old 'Stepney' could probably use the rest!

Personally, I agree, a K would be infinitely more useful! With it's 5ft 6in drivers, it'll be much happier than an express loco plodding along earning it's keep at 25mph. Given the originals took 1000 ton trains in their stride, keeping time on the Bluebell's gradients won't be a problem.

Although Stephenson's gear at very least matches Walschaert's in performance (many hold it to be superior), any outside (only) valve gear is, by definition, easier for fitters to get at. Perhaps it was this which persuaded Maunsell to stick with his own moguls for the SR standard? Mainenance costs were given as the reason for the choice.

Mentioned before, but still worth noting, the SECR designed moguls later suffered from frame weaknesses absent from the Billinton design right up to final en-bloc class withdrawl, all still in fine fettle and with original frames, in late '62. False economy? I'd imagine that, but for WWII, all the SR moguls would probably have been earmarked for replacement around 1950-55 in any event. Diesel or otherwise, it's a pretty safe bet whatever followed would've run on bogies.... 'Nuff said about that!

Come new build time, the inside gear is an area which will need close attention, at the design stage, to establish whether any small tweaks (especially lubrication) are possible to make life easier for crews and workshop staff. With the Brighton being a Westinghouse line, dual brakes will be welcomed by the ops folks, come visiting mainline train time.

Profile wise 32354 (pretty sure that would have been the number, as old locos were shunted off the list for the K's) would pretty much have to be to the composite gauge, if for no other reason than livery options and the fact that maintenance staff wouldn't thank anyone for having extra glands to worry about if the original (and pretty pointless) tail rods were incorporated.

Whether 32424 or 32354 provides the best shovel cooked fry-up remains to be seen. The opportunity to find out is a possibility to savour... with relish!