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Isle of Wight Steam Railway Carriage and Wagon updates

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by gwalkeriow, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Our brethren in aeroplane restoration would consider that an adequate and viable starting point for a restoration, rather than a new build :)

    Tom
     
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  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Such thoughts are not absent from railway preservation either. My reaction to them would always be "are you paying then".

    Paul H
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Any more info Paul? Must admit, beyond the 1921 foundation date, the '29 takeover and becoming part of National under the BTC, I know precious little detail. At the risk of going totally off-piste, reading between the lines, I wonder if the earlier vehicles were built on ex-WWI chassis, as there was quite a bit of Army Surplus kicking around back then. Also, did the depression's effects on the Southern perhaps dictate the chain of events?
     
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  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    I "think" but am not sure that it was the National company who acquired the shares before the war. Whether Sir Herbert's undoubted expertise in finding resources to finance electrification was not matched by knowledge of the ways of private capitalism is a possibility that has to be considered. Don't know the answer alas.

    Paul H
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed, it was more a comment about the degree to which some aeroplane "restorations" are essentially not far removed from new build.

    Presumably though you don't need to be reminded that the IoWSR Strategic Vision does include the long term objective to "build a replica of one or more Island locomotives to enhance our historical portrayal" and while I am sure meeting that objective with a Slaughter-Gruning 2-2-2WT would be lovely, no doubt a Beyer-Peacock 2-4-0T is rather more realistic! :)

    Tom
     
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  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    It was written, I think, before the E.1 was acquired.

    Paul H
     
  7. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Still though, the Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T is a missing part of the islands rail history Paul, as much as having the E1, now, i dare say many on the IOWSR would not share your view that it is now not necessary, and that in the fullness of time, properly funded and resourced one should not be built.to in effect show the full story of the Isle of Wight railways .they could always dispose of Ajax which now that the railway has 2 ivatt and 2 Austerities, has enough large engines, or is she viewed as part of the railways reserve.
     
  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Well, I have my own thoughts about Ajax but it is just too darned easy to spend money on things that aren't vital. Vital things include civil engineering plus maintenance of existing motive power and rolling stock. Do you realise that the newest passenger vehicle dates from 1924? None of this will get any cheaper with the years .

    Apart from this there are other things which cost money. Maintaining the area of woodland which is an S.S.S.I. is a responsibility. There are also things like car parks and lavatories which visitors to tourist attractions expect to find.

    This all comes into the "in my opinion" category but you will see why, having acquired the E1, I feel that further proposals to recreate other machinery from the past come firmly in the W.I.B.N. area for the foreseeable future,

    Sorry to be fierce!

    Paul H
     
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  9. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    You must have a generous supporter or (had) a lot of cash. One of Ryde's plates sold at Stoneleigh in June 2015 which, including BP, would have cost over £18,000.:cool:

    Correction, that was the plate from an E1.
     
  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    The two on display are from the 1864 "Ryde". One is on loan whilst the other and the bunker plate were bequested by the late A.B. Macleod. Other name and maker's plates from I.W.R. Beyers were part of the Sir Peter Allen bequest.

    I.O.W. railwayana is much collected and apart from individual generosity we are reliant on "passing the hat round", not always successfully! Some things get amazing/ridiculous amounts. However we imported an item from Brisbane in Australia recently which would have been beyond our means if auctioned in the U.K.

    PH
     
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  11. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    i hope you have good security, and insurance, as having priceless artifacts on public display is in its self a risk, for instance locos very seldom carry original nameplates due to the nick-ability , one abiding memory to me was the concourse at Ryde pier head being the first thing you saw whilst queuing for your train .
     
  12. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Well-Known Member

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    Back to carriages, Gary what is the long term plan? As I understood it we will in the fullness of time see:
    A rake of eight four wheel carriages (which could be split in two on occasion),
    A rake of ? bogie coaches (which could again be split somehow)
    A rake of ? Oldbury type four wheelers,
    A rake of ? goods wagons

    As regards new build engines I thought a 2-4-0 was the idea as it would fit with the Southern image and carriages available. One of the older engines would be fun but a lot less use with even less power than a terrier. All very long term plans but it would be nice to see them in my working life...(yes Paul I'll contribute)
     
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  13. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    The potential is for more

    We almost have 7 restored 4 wheelers with 2 grounded bodies still to be restored. (which could indeed be split into 2 sets)
    We currently have 4 working LBSCR bogies with the 3 SECR bogies set to return in the next year or two. We also have 3 complete LCDR bogies and a small number of half bodies. so the potential is there for more than one bogie set.
    We have 6 Oldbury bodies, unfortunately none are brakes so a couple of new builds may be required.
    I think that the goods rake presently stands at 10 vehicles with potential for another 6 or more.

    That is as far as I am aware the current situation (having retired earlier in the year) the strategic plan allows for more Island bodies to be acquired as and when they become available, Metropolitan 8 wheeler, Newport and Cowes 4 wheeler ETC. This will allow a much more complete story to be told.

    From a personal view point wouldn't it be nice to be able to match the Oldburys with a Beyer Peacock, sorry Paul.

    Train Story will need to be extended :) and the workshop.
     
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  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Oh Gary, Paul will not be pleased, words are sure to follow :)
    What is really note worthy, is this, that the railway has grown into what it has become ,i can remember my first trip to Havenstreet, 2 coaches propelled by Spitfire to just before Wotton, where the sea of mud prevented going any further, Calbourne, what was left of it, on stands by the foot crossing, no covered accommodation, no museum, compare that with now? and what will it be like in another 20 years? already Havenstreet MPD has more engines than Ryde did when it closed , 9 steam isn't it? 3 diesels, compare this to when the line opened, Invincible was the only steam loco for the first few years whilst calbourne was being overhauled.
     
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  15. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    It has indeed come a long way but their is plenty still to do. Running into Ryde St Johns will give a good destination but increase mileages and loco and stock requirements. The workshop facilities particularly the loco shop are sparse to say the least, plans are being drawn up for very much improved facilities for both the Loco and C&W but may take a good few years to execute.

    I am sure that even Paul would love to see a Beyer Peacock at Havenstreet. :)
     
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  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Doesn't one of the C&N 1862 Wright carriage bodies also survive? Did any of the ex-Metropolitan 8 wheeler bodies survive their decades of beach hut duty?
    (Edit... Just saw Gary's post... so question becomes "Will the intention be to restore the 8w kit as 8w, as opposed to fitted with bogies?")

    Whilst I love the current, beautifully restored, 4w stock, when time come to get the Oldbury kit back into service, might it be preferable to follow the lead of the folks who restored a North Staffs 4wheeler, and produce chassis closer in appearance to the originals?

    The NSR chassis AIUI is steel, clad to give the appearance of wooden construction. I honestly don't know how plentiful the supply of GUV chassis is, but limitless it certainly isn't!

    The IWSR was the first SG line visited where I thought "Wow!" when I first, nearly 30 years ago, clapped eyes on the standard of carriage restoration. No tatty BR moquette to be seen anywhere, and a train where the passenger accomodation was as meticulously well presented as the loco, which, on that day, was W24 Calbourne (lovely loco....so, lucky me!). All this was long before the current impressive facilities were available.
     
  17. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    I believe their are 2 surviving C&N bodies and around 7 Metropolitan 8 wheelers. The current thinking with the Mets is that it may not be possible to run one as an 8 wheeler, it is something that would have to be given a good deal of thought. One may be restored as an 8 wheeler as a static museum item and one fitted with bogies so that it may be used.

    The current thinking with the Oldburys is to build totally new wooden underframes, remember they are only 22' in length so PMV underframes would need considerable modification.
     
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  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks Gary. That list is way better news than I expected.

    Do thoughts on the Met bodies perhaps inicate caution when considering a chassis style forgotten by genrations since they passed from living memory? My guess would be, some bright cyber-spark with suitable software will find a way to model ride quality and other behaviour of this obsolete technology - but, hey! Isn't it all obsolete? Mets on bogies would be better than no Mets, but a rake of pukka 8 wheelers would indeed be something unique!

    The plans for the Oldburys look the best way forward. PMV chassis wouldn't, IMHO, be optimal for such stock for any number of reasons. Is anyone betting against finding any other gems may hidden in the fields, gardens and undergrowth around the island?

    Accepting Paul's forseeable future caveat, a recreated BP 2-4-0t would have to a target for that lot, though I'd put money on someone arguing the case for another O2! The sheer amount of work needed to restore so many carriages, whilst keeping existing stock and loco fleet up to scratch, suggests there'll be time a-plenty (and then some!) to plot a newbuild loco. Wonder if I'll live long enough to join the arguments over whether the railway will eventually be going Ryde, Wroxall or full Bonchurch?
     
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  19. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Oh dear, i think you may have just trigggered Pauls WIBN alarm :eek: with that last paragraph,
    Getting back to the Oldburys would the wooden underframes be able to be suppied as a kit of parts ? pre cut to size pre drilled etc , it would certainly make assembly easier, and possibly reduce the cost if the IOWSR can afford to place the order in one go, for 6 underframes, or 8, if your including 2 brake vans, either that or use the SR brake van if its air fitted , What is the next grounded body to be restored next? and due to the signifcance of the Oldbury coaches, will the railway be looking to secure grants to help pay for the reconstruction and be looking for appentice chippies to learn the skills that would be needed .
     
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  20. Grashopper

    Grashopper Member

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    Obtaining wheel sets and axle boxes (among other things) for that many vehicles requiring chassis will be a challenge.
     

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