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Should the T3 be Steamed Poll

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Mogul, Apr 22, 2017.

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Should the T3 be overhauled to operational condition?

  1. No, it should be conserved in a non operational state with only cosmetic restoration

    18 vote(s)
    15.5%
  2. Yes, sufficient replacement of material for a 10yr ticket is ok with me but I won't be donating.

    48 vote(s)
    41.4%
  3. Yes, and I would be prepared to donate money to see this happen sooner rather than later

    33 vote(s)
    28.4%
  4. It's up to the SRT and its members. I've no strong opinion so probably wouldn't donate

    17 vote(s)
    14.7%
  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    One possible option would be if the engine was turned out in its 1930's Southern livery, this would enable Maunsell era coaches to be used with it, there are several of these at both the Swanage Railway and Bluebell, and it would be easier to assemble a 1930's rake, than a LSWR rake, and of course, if replica LBSCR transfers for the numbers could be found, it would also be unique because, as far as i can tell, no other engine is currently in that style of Southern livery.
     
  2. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    You could always offer them the use of the headshunt at Horsted Keynes, seems like a good place to keep historic locos! ;)
     

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  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed - all the more reason not to do the same with the far rarer and more valuable T3. And in our defence - the Yankie tank will soon be going under cover and getting a cosmetic restoration.

    Tom
     
  4. 007

    007 Member

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    SR is not bound by any agreements that say the T3 has to be publically accessible so the SR can store it, display or restore it as it sees fit.
    It won't be spending too long outside.
     
  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Good. Can we infer that there are agreements regarding the curation of the T3?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    I don't think it is. 2x Bulleid coaches complete with a third underway. Mansell 1381 has arrived back following an exterior restoration, and now internal fittings are being completed by 71B C&W with a hoped for entry into service in 2018.
    http://www.swanagerailwaytrust.org.uk/index.php/heritage-coach-fund
     
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  7. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    Sorry, bit of a typo there is only 3x onsite! (Swanage / Harmans / Norden). Would need a brake vehicle, and if a saloon could be added you have all forms of class available within 1x train operating on the line they once ran on!
    And to add an extra dimension to a M7 push-pull set and Bulleid rake, there's 33111 and the 4TC unit...
     
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  8. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clarifying that. As I pointed out though, there are plenty of others out there - some are incorporated in bungalows and so on and I deliberately omitted those which look like you would have no hope of ever getting hold of, but there is one on my list in SLL ownership, another apparently already offered to Swanage and at least a couple of others which look perfectly viable with a bit of negotiation. Leave it a few years and they will start to disappear or deteriorate beyond hope. I would have thought a lottery application based on acquiring and conserving what remains of these vehicles for future restoration (to be displayed and, long term perhaps, operated in conjunction with 563) would be the starting point, rather than going all out for squillions to start building new running gear. Start with assessing which ones are available and get as many saved as you can, and get a secure building up to store them in safely, before it is too late. Given the potential peak traffic levels on the Swanage you will want to be aiming for a fairly decent train length if it's going to be anything more than an occasional curiosity.

    This is one area in which the IOWSR and Bluebell really are streets ahead of the rest of us, but there is still time while these vehicles are still out there.

    My own particular interest is GCR vehicles and whilst there are a few around, it would be really difficult to get a decent train of 4/6 wheelers together now as what remains are all pretty well spoken for and in many cases have their own roles to fill with their present owners, who would have no particular reason to part with them. Hence the GCR Rolling Stock Trust have ended up with a mish-mash of carriages from three different eras, and not really enough of any of them. You are lucky that there seem to be sufficient LSWR bodies out there to be able to do this; don't leave it too late.
     
  9. To me this begs the question that surely a Mk1 on its original underframe with its original interior is more historically authentic than what is effectively the remains of a coach exterior, heavily repaired with a lot of new wood, with a largely new interior on the underframe from a completely different, non-passenger carrying vehicle?

    Ye Olde Worlde Carriagye might look authentic, but the MK1 is actually the more truly authentic vehicle.

    But if we are basing historical authenticity more on where a vehicle actually ran in its pre-preservation service and with what engine, a heck of a lot of preserved railways have a heck of a lot of non-authentic vehicles!

    What I would venture is rather more important is having enough passenger-carrying capacity to get families from one end of the line to the other, to enjoy the view from their 'ride on a steam train' and keep them happy enough to spend their pounds in the buffet, shop, and to want to come back again, than any amount of putting the views of the railway enthusiast Taliban first...
     
  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Being involved with a railway that runs both, vintage and Mk1's both have their advantages and disadvantages, it depends on what you want, if you just want a trip on a train, Mk1's are fine, if you want a true vintage experience, then you can't beat vintage coaches and an 0-6-0 tank engine :)
    by their very nature any operation has to be a comprimise, the only problem i have seen first hand is that if your running a vintage rake you have to ensure sufficient buggie space, so a pmv, or simular in the rake to put them, is essential, but of course try explaining to some families that they can not take their oversize buggie on a 4 wheeler that they have to then collapse , whatch them go into melt down, thats where the Mk 1 will win, they can keep their things with them, :)
     
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  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Not W.I.B.N. about the bogie stock and I am glad to hear of progress. However the six wheel stuff is much more doubtful unless someone can raise the funds to build brand new underframes.

    Paul H.
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    In some cases though, there will be no suitable underframes availible, for grounded bodies, as for many this will be the only option if the desire is there to have something different from the run of the meal Mk1's, i think its something the railway wide industry will have to grasp, the only way may be for railways to get together and pool a large enough order for the steel , the castings etc, that volume brings enough savings to make it affordable
     
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  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Don't you believe it. L.C.D.R. vehicles for instance, were built of the best Burma teak and likely survive better than newer, steel panelled, stuff. One known to me spent its time as a summer house under a thatched roof! When it came to be restored, it was in sound condition with many of its interior fittings remaining.

    PH
     
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  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    i can agree with that, compare a LCDR coach to a district coach of about the same age, good quality Teak bodied structure on the Chatham , compared to what must have been not so good quality hardwood on the District, much of which has needed replacement, where as the chathems i have seen first hand, are in need of very little structural work limited to new sections letting in, not a whole new cant rail and B posts, bottom rail, in the case of the district. the intertia is also of better quality on chatham vehicles.
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    LCDR vehicles do seem to be particularly robust, at least when compared with LBSCR ones made of mahogany. They are also relatively simple in design with lots of straight edges and square corners. Which might explain why there are about 10 or 11 LCDR four wheelers currently operational on various railways, but only about 2 or 3 LBSCR ones, with a few others in the latter stages of overhaul. With the exception of 1520 on the Bluebell, I don't think there are any LSWR passenger vehicles running in preservation, so the complexity of restoration is probably a bit of an unknown.

    Tom
     
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  16. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Of course you can do as the Ffestiniog/WHR appear to do & have a variety of stock in the train ranging from 'Super Barns' to Bug Boxes......................
     
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  17. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    You may be right in terms of the integrity and originality of the specific vehicle, though many Mk.1s have now received new steelwork particularly around body ends and window bottoms, and have been reupholstered, and in many cases also had some sort of mid-life overhaul under BR ownership, so not all that many are truly "original" any more and those which are are probably the tatty ones.

    However, it also depends what we are trying to "preserve". Is the vehicle itself the important thing, or is it the overall experience and the look and feel of the railway of a particular era, or is it the designs and engineering skills which made it happen? Personally I would have no problem with placing a restored vintage body on a replacement underframe if it allowed the latter elements to be demonstrated in a way they otherwise could not, and if the alternative was leaving the grounded body to rot in a field then it also happens to be the best result for the long term conservation of the original bit, even if the worn out original bits do have to be replicated as part of the process.
     

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