Flying Scotsman

Not a hi-viz one, though!

 

And to hell with the passengers who have booked on on charters that are cancelled because this shower can't keep their network in gauge. They have paid money in good faith and are entitled to be treated like any other passengers. Oh, hang on how many times have commuters been left to their own devices when engineering works overrun.

 

But can't keep the network in gauge for what? I would agree that the recent issues with steam gauging has been incredibly frustrating, but what percentage of rail users have been affect (p.s. I am one who has been).

 

If only they had done this, nearly everyone would have been happy ...

Here's what should have happened ... by Inspiring Images, on Flickr

I'll refrain from commenting too much but it did became apparent through the course of the morning that the event was being controlled by the Virgin advert director at the cost of the rest of the press and public. There was unhappiness in the press pack at the sidings as their needs were ignored and over ridden by said editor and the press officer for Virgin had to intervene to ensure they got the images they required. . The "show" at the big screen at the station failed to attract any audience and actually shut down before any trains arrived at York station.

In summary if someone from the railway ops side of VTEC had more input and their PR team really wanted to lay on a public event rather than film an advert things would have gone far better for the public who were asked to come and witness the event and then were pretty much ignored. Its the missed opportunity that is frustrating but a historical moment nonetheless.

 

But Scotsman gets gauged for where she needs to go & things done to make it happen - maybe every steam tour should be gauged for her & then the rostered loco will have no problems getting through!

 

I now refer posters to my comments at 504 and ask if critics would care to re-assess their opinions ! THIS was the photograph that the linesiders at Overton Bridge expected to see based on the NRM Press Release - and hence the complaints when it didn't happen.

I wonder if Virgin Trains are now prepared to offer consolation (a free trip to an American Rail event perchance ?) for those whose wait proved to be in vain.

 

No, I won't revise my comments. A free event was provided, and circumstances on the day meant that it did not work out as anticipated for some availing themselves of the free opportunity. And as no money changed hands, no compensation is due.

 

And how many times has engineering work been finished on schedule? strange as it may seem many times more than it goes wrong if you could actually be bothered to look at the relevant figures rather than spouting b******t.

If engineering works overrun then under the national conditions of carriage - which can be found here http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46427.aspx (and you would be well advised to read before giving us further display of your arrogance) the relevant TOC has to compensate passengers for the disruption plus make every effort to get them to where they wish to go. NR will then compensate them handsomely for such delays - which is why NR goes to extensive efforts to avoid overruns in the first place, but its a fact of life that equipment breaks down, staff get taken ill, weather conditions change and occasionally something is discovered that wasn't anticipated in the planning stages.

As for charter train passengers - while they are indeed entitled to receive good service, the simple fact is that the numbers are against them - particularly if they are making complex requests. As with any business, NR's primary focus has to be with the vastly higher numbers of passengers (and indeed goods) that traverse the network everyday, who use standard kit, run the same routes day in, day out and who consume far more attention / resources as a result. Thus it is not exactly rocket science to comprehend that guageing obsolete and widely differing types of motive power for a couple of journeys a year over random routes will hardly be a priority for the company, however much enthusiasts shout and moan.

In fact what would help matters is if people like you stopped being so demanding in their wants - Gauging is never usually an issue for the VOSE for example because they 'keep it simple' - i.e. one loco, a couple of regular routes traversed throughout the year making it much less likely that problems will arise.

 

Nice try , but flawed logic there - Gauging is done for a specific type of motive power, so while yes the Flying Scotsman may be able to go anywhere as a result, the 'rostered locos' as you put it, won't. In fact given the resources necessary to clear Scotsman for everywhere then there won't be any staff available to work on anything else meaning LESS steam not more.

Now if there was a fleet of 30 A3 locomotives that could be sent out following such an exercise to cover all charters in the UK for 6 months then you might have been onto something.

 

No...don't mention new build A3's! That will really get people going.

 

It is disappointing, though, that there doesn't seem to be a aspiration to migrate the network to a bigger loading gauge. But its finance again.

Nothing is new of course. Back at the turn of the last century Churchward and Inglis persuaded the GWR board to agree that all bridge replacements and repairs should be designed for 22 ton axle load in future, but didn't make a song and dance about it. 20 odd years later later this foresight enabled the introduction of the King class, since only a few bridges on the main routes still needed to be upgraded. Felix Pole, the general manager and money man, in his book bemoans the fact that for 20 years they'd made the investment with no return, but there never could be an immediate return on the moderate extra expenditure of upgrading bridges as you touch them.

But if every structure on the GW main line had been prepared for overhead electric and a container friendly gauge as it was touched over the last 30 years, how much cheaper and less disruptive would the current electrification project be? The short term finance thinkers will always campaign against this sort of forward looking investment, but how much does it cost you in the long run?

Not, admittedly, that a container loading gauge will help much with outside cylinder clearances, but it might save some cut down GWR locomotives.

 

I agree, there is a lack of ambition. But it still might not make much difference. Unlike the French, and others, high platforms are the norm, which puts a constraint on what you can do. There is then another-good-leg of transport policy that is trying to improve accessibility - include by providing level access from platform to train. That does nothing to ease clearances for unusual shaped vehicles - and preserved locos are unusual in comparison to the current service fleet.


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One serious question, steam has been running on the mainline regularly since the early 70s so why has gauging only been an issue in the last few years? I know the network has now been reduced to little more than a high speed guided busway but has anything else changed over the years? I would have thought for future flexibility in rolling stock design a more generous loading gauge would be the aim

 

No reassessment here, It DID happen.
Macko said "if only they had done this".....................they did.
Run this video clip.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-39684287

 

Our posts crossed, but the other factor is that Network Rail have acknowledged that routine maintenance and replacement works don't always leave track where it was. So they've instituted a policy that stock that isn't specifically passed for a line must be regauged every 6 months.


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But surely the routine maintenance and replacement work Should leave the track pretty much where it was otherwise it will cause problems for any stock passed for a line...

 

Two things I'd throw out there - these are in the nature of conjecture, rather than verifiable facts / causes:

1) Is the issue at least partially related less to actual changes in the infrastructure over the last forty-odd years, and more to enhanced knowledge of vehicle dynamics meaning that the various stakeholders (infrastructure owner and vehicle operator) are now more aware of just how close at times a moving vehicle comes to fixed infrastructure, and they have adapted accordingly - either banning some traction altogether, or imposing speed restrictions, especially through platforms?

2) Has the fragmented nature of the post-privatisation railway, with infrastructure owner, vehicle owner and vehicle operator being separate concerns, led to a more risk averse view about gauging? Put simply, the financial risk to the infrastructure owner of allowing an out-of-gauge vehicle to pass which comes to grief and causes delays to other operators means that they are likely to be more cautious. The fragmented nature is also likely to require greater contractual measures in place between each party, which requires more certainty that each party can deliver what they promise - at the expense of more gauging.

Actual physical changes in the infrastructure may well have happened over the last forty-odd years, but both of those factors above would also naturally lead to greater caution from the infrastructure owner about what is and isn't possible, without any other overt change over that period.

Tom

 

6024, Paddington?


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But NOT where it was advertised. The Press Release indicated that it would operate for some distance and indicated that that would be south of The Sidings. Given the interest in the scene - and the fact that stewards were reportedly directing linesiders to the Overton Bridge - it would seem that the intention was to run past the bridge in flight formation southwards to York. In the event - hence the complaints from many at the scene - that did NOT happen and the posting above suggests that the Virgin Train Press Officer over-rode the organisers in his actions and not only only upset those at Overton Bridge but also the Press / media representatives at The Siding.

If you note the video clip referred to, the scenes were mainly taken from the air as there was little - if any - lineside locations between Tollerton and The Sidings and the still images I have seen are taken through the wires rather than under the wires as is possible at Overton Bridge.

I had said I would refrain from further comment but this latest information re the actions of the Virgin Trains Press Officer only confirms my concern at the wasted opportunities and the waste of effort on my - and 200+ others - part to support an event that dented our trust in supporting future NRM events; is that what the NRM was expecting from their involvement in this event ?