GWR Tender Water Level Gauge. Which Tender and Loco?

I own a tender water level gauge from a 3500 gallon GWR tender. The gauge is stamped with the number A4205. It came from A E Kings scrapyard in Norwich in the mid 1960's
I am trying to find out which tender and loco the gauge came from.
This website lists the locos scrapped at A E Kings:-
http://www.railuk.info/steam/getscrap.php?id=69
I have been able to eliminate most of the GWR locos in the list because:-
They were tank locos.
They were 1000 (County) Class locos with 4000 gallon tenders.
They were 2251 Class locos fitted with 3000 gallon tenders.
They were 4700 Class locos fitted with 4000 gallon tenders.
They were 4900 (Hall) Class locos with 4000 Gallon tenders.
They were 4073 (Castle Class locos with 4000 gallon tenders.
This narrows the possibilities down to four locos:-
6385 of the 4300 Class.
6391 of the 4300 Class.
9302 of the 4300 Class.
6807 Birchwood Grange.
Is it possible to narrow it down further? If A4205 is the tender number, then this would appear to indicate a fairly late date of construction.
Tender allocations for Castle Class locos seem to be well documented. Is there anything similar for the 4300 and Grange Classes?
Thanks.

 

A couple of pictures.

 

I think you will find that numberi s the pattern number not specific to a particular tender.

 

Possibly, but the digits look far too shallow to have been cast in and appear to have been stamped. I would have thought a cast in number would be in raised lettering.

I guess that if a similar water gauge could be found it could be checked for a similar cast or stamped number.

I see that the Lady of Legend team have made a pattern for a similar gauge:-

http://www.thesaintproject.co.uk/Media/Tender water cap scale casting pattern.JPG

This might indicate that the gauge came from a Churchward tender, which would suggest the tender was attached to a 4300 Class loco, as Granges would have had Collet tenders???

 

There is a similar water gauge in the Talisman railwayana auction on 1st August. Using the magnifying glass on the photo in the catalogue shows number A4205 on this, as well.

 

Got it. Lot 187.

http://www.talismanauctions.co.uk/current/August2015/page08.html

Thanks for that.

Trying to trace it through the A4205 number is obviously a dead end then.

 

Not so I fear. The Granges started life with Churchward tenders. Don't forget they were (partial) rebuilds of 4300s.

 

Baldric is correct. The Churchward tender numbers do not go higher than T2373 for standard Churchward 3500g & 2383 for similar intermediate tenders.

 

I've done a bit more research into this and I've managed to find pictures of three of the locos shortlisted.

6807 Birchwood Grange is pictured at Cambridge and is on its way to the scrap yard, hence the lack of connecting rods.
6385 looks like it could be off to the scrap yard too, as there's sacking over the chimney.
7324, formerly 9302 is obviously still in service.

These locos are fitted with threee different tenders. Does this help narrow down the search?

Thanks.

 

great thread!

Wouldn't it be brilliant if it came off the Grange!

 

The tender behind 6385 is interesting, a Churchward 3500 Gallon example?

 

Mmm, that's a high sided well tank tender. Particularly interesting because the chassis does not appear to be of the scalloped frame lot A112 type, but an earlier one. This is all part of the "Intermediate Tender" thing.

Having done a bit of research on the subject for my book I hold a different view to the otherwise authoritative tender article in Pannier on the subject of these high sided well tank tenders. Although there's a note in the Tender record book saying that lot A112 had high sides, I don't think its universally the case. I suspect the high sided type was turned out in the mid 20s (after Churchward retired of course) on tenders from a number of lots of well tank tenders for use with Castles and converted Stars. The high sides do match a Castle cab much better. Then when the Castles were given new 4,000 gallon flush tank tenders the high sides well tanks were just put in the general pool. The note in the tender record book about high sides must date from some years after they were built (its a scribbled addition in a distinctive pen and must be post 1930), and I think its misleading. Two main reasons, the first is a reasonable number of photos showing high sides on tenders with a pre lot A112 chassis, and the second is that all the lot A112 drawings I've seem show low sides, and the one surviving tender from that lot also has low sides.

The tender with 6807 is a flush tank type, not quite sure whether its 3,500 gallon (rare) or 4,000 gallon, but you could guess the water gauge might be different from the well tank ones. I don't think the water gauges would have been different on the low sided and high sided well tank types.

 

T I must confess to having little knowledge of GWR tenders but as the gauge shows the depth of water as well as the capacity, I would have thought the gauge would have to correlate with the height of the sides.

Just thinking I'm sure someone will put me right!

 

Looks like it has suffered a side-swipe. I wonder if that was sufficient to see the loco condemned at the end of its life?

Tom

 

The difference appears to be literally just the sides above the water tank: all the evidence I've seen is that the tank itself is the same. Here's a sketch of the 3 basic types. You can see on the older low side one the filler cap is plainly visible from the sides, but with the higher sides its obscured, as it is on the flush tank tender.

 

Tender swaps weren't a very big deal so equally they might have put the bashed tender on the loco going off to be scrapped anyway.

 

Could be same gauge but fitted in a higher or lower position.

 

No - the gauge mechanism is designed to take account of the height. Also the higher sides of the Churchward intermediate tenders are due to an increase in coal capacity rather than a larger water tank.

 

Thank you for the enlightenment. I was always curious as to why the 3500 gallon tenders came in so many sizes, but the change from well tank to flush types obviously had a bearing.
I have not seen coal capacities commonly quoted for GWR tenders and would be interested to know more.