West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Large scale developement on the triangle has two major drawbacks. Firstly the flooding problem but much more difficult is the poor road access. It is unlikely that the planners would allow developement that would significantly increase traffic levels.

 

Some years ago a consultant engaged by the WSR suggested that BL be renamed Taunton West. While that was never going to happen there might well be considerable commercial merit in giving such a name to a new gateway station development at or near NF.

As a resident of rapidly expanding Norton Fitzwarren I can foresee the day soon when we become an integral part of the Taunton conurbation. The volume of residential development completed, ongoing and planned will ensure this. Indeed, our village name sign was relocated considerably closer to Taunton a few weeks ago and a 40 mph section of the B3227 approaching NF is about to be reduced to an urban area 30 mph.

An added bonus would come in the form of regular Taunton (West) to Minehead trains, without the complications!

 

I've thought for some time that having a turntable at BL would be a valuable addition and operationally it would be better than sending locos all the way to NF to be turned. But I'm not sure it's a practical idea, where could one be put?

 

We have a blank sheet of paper so provision for a future turntable should not be much of a problem. The location should be convenient so it can be used on a turn-around from MD.

 

I don't agree.

On the ordinary service the time taken to turn a loco at both ends adds unnecessarily and unacceptably to the turn round time. On a Gala service there is time to turn at MD and on the NFW triangle.

A turntable at BL would require a significant space in a tight site for relatively little operational gain.

Robin

 

Would that be the view from a nice warm and dry signal box ?

 

No.

It's the view from a desk with a practical timetable laying on it.

But if you think I am wrong, do take the timetable and attempt to rework it with the necessary time added into turn rounds at both ends.....

That's what makes Railway Operations such a fascinating, complex, satisfying exercise in resources and time, which I have been privileged to learn a little about over the past 40 years.

Robin

 

Is that the case?

I must admit that it is a very long time since I 'did' the West Somerset, but when I did I found it more convenient to stay in a b&b near Blue Anchor and go into Minehead for the town facilities, shops etc before catching the train from there.

Being a long distance from my home I would not be able to go there and back in the day and still get a reasonable visit.

Do the majority of passengers nowadays start from BL? If so are they mainly local (ie: within 100miles or so) or do they use accommodation in the local area?

Michael

 

The operational complexities have always fascinated me, since my time as a timings clerk at DMO Wimbledon. Some of the books on practical railway operating make a good read for me, but would probably bore others to death.

If I lived nearer the KESR I would probably want to get involved with the WTT and other planning work.

Michael

 

Can anyone recommend a book on practical railway operating?

How long does it take to turn a loco at Minehead

 

Yes, the majority of passengers start their day at BL, and will spend a few hours in MD before returning. The number joining en route will probably account for about 25% of the passengers. My experience is that they are mostly local inhabitants, living in the area bounded by Bristol and Exeter, although of course in the holiday season we will get quite a few people staying in local hotels, caravan sites etc. Only at Galas do we tend to see a noticeable increase in people from some distance, and they lodge relatively locally, Minehead being fairly popular.

 

Essential first reading would be Rolt's 'Red for Danger'.

'How to be a Railway Signalman' by Waldron isn't bad if that is your interest.

There are many others.

 

It depends where else on the layout you start from and where you are needed next. A 20-minute allowance would be needed for timetabling.

Robin

 

Interesting. Another visit is long overdue. It was a very long time ago, and I believe only one service went through to BL on the timetable in force during my visit. Having checked the current timetables I see that most trains are shown to run the full line nowadays.

 

Irrespective of timetabling and operational aspects surely any future proof plan would recognise that as BR found the arduous nature of footplate duties made recruitment difficult and the GWR in particular were not overly generous with their tender loco cab designs. I would therefore suggest that decisions about factilities such as turntables ahould be made by loco crews and loco crew roster clerks in full recognition of the need to encourage future recrutiment to the job. Whilst many on here grew up wanting to be engine drivers is that true of a modern generation? Surely anything which make the job easier/more pleasant and arguably safer must surely be a good thing.

 

John,

The actual turning process is around 7 minutes for the locomotive to:- run onto the turntable after stopping at the stop board, be made safe, turned, table locked and the locomotive to depart, it does take longer for crews with larger visiting locomotives.

To run a locomotive around a train at Minehead takes typically 12 to 15 minutes if there is no requirement to take coal or water, crew change etc, the fastest that I am aware of was just under 9 minutes from the exact time the train wheels stopped rolling on arrival to the time that the guard blew his whistle for the train to depart, but this was exceptional and everyone was briefed and ready for what was expected of them.

Because of the longer running time WN - MD compared to WN - BL the available run round times are approximately 15 minutes greater at BL than MD. If locomotives were serviced at BL rather than MD it would be possible to turn locomotives at both ends of the railway, provided the turntable at BL was easily accessible and trains arriving at Minehead all ran to the Bay platform. The location of the Bay platform water tower was specifically installed to allow for this. On occasions service trains do already turn at Minehead without causing delays to the timetable.

Andy.

 

"Single Line Railways", edited by OS Nock, is a good general introduction to the sort of railway operating (and civil engineering) relevant to heritage railways but can be difficult to acquire nowadays.

 

I beg to differ.

Decisions about facilities need to be made in the context of the overall plan.

You would not suggest that Signalmen should decide what signals we have and Guards what rolling stock to use on any particular day?

Back to the need to appreciate and sythesize all those moving parts which go to make up an operating Railway.

Robin

 

Doesn't quite work like that though. Suppose you add more time at each end to turn the locos: translate that through to how many locos you need to run the same timetable and you may well find on some days you have an extra loco required to maintain the same frequency. That means an extra loco in traffic, which translates to extra overhaul cost. (For example, if turning a loco meant that the minimum motive power requirement changed from, say, 7 locos available to 8, then you have just at a stroke potentially added 14% to the loco maintenance budget).

That's a somewhat back of the envelope calculation, but is just to show that quite apart from the capital cost, a decision like turning at both ends would require a lot of thought to ensure it was not adding a structural cost to the railway by dint of increased proportion of each diagram not being for direct traffic purposes. As @Robin White says, operations is a matter of significant complexity and not something that should be dominated by the requirements of a single department, but by the most efficient solution for the whole railway.

Tom

 

I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves. This is a tourist railway. Nobody who travels has a plane to catch, there are no complex inter-linked timetables to map to, nobody will be late for work, there is no performance related pay. This should be a relaxed, fun experience and we should operate in a safe and comfortable manner. If I think of the operational "gotcha's" which have happened in recent years, they have all been due to what I call "press-on-itis". I shall say no more.

Working on the footplate can be the most wonderful experience. I will always remember my first run as it took me about 3 days to stop grinning. On the other hand, running backwards into horizontal sleet for 20 miles tends to dull the experience. On one particularly foul trip this winter, I was slowly turning like a spit roast chicken so the radiated heat from the firebox could dry off the worst. Even when running backwards in nice weather, the dust from the coal can mean that you get shot blasted so goggles are essential. Running "forwards" is also kinder to loco tenders.

If the timetable needs to be tweaked a bit then it's not the end of the world. The turntable at Minehead is universally popular with our customers. If BL is to become a customer showpiece then a turntable should one day be a central part of the show. Yes, they are expensive however we should make provision for one in the plan. If five, ten or even fifteen years down the road one becomes available, it would be an absolute howler if we were not in a position to have it as an easily accessible part of our routine operations.