CME 15/07/17

I really do hope the hard working crew at WC never read some of this utter nonsense from the armchair know alls. Unless you were there and involved you have no clue about the problems faced but there is a clue in the fact that they had to stop for a blow up at Wilpshire summit, bad batch of coal. It may not be the case but there is no question of a Jubilee's boiler being capable of boiling water. Despite the problems 5690 completed the journey without assistance so well done all involved.

Back in steam days 12 over Ais Gill would be considered overloaded but the loading guidelines were formulated for an engine in average condition with an averagely motivated crew. Today there is a guarantee that the loco is in top class condition and the crew are top notch so there is no comparison.

 

Chris Beet was standing to my left in the field at Aisgill with his Mrs on the bridge near me hence he got a whistle . I thought it was a super show from the Jubilee on Shap and the S&C although the rail conditions won't have helped her on the return.

 

Bankers were not always taken. Peter Handford's recordings provide plenty of evidence of 5XPs et al slogging up Shap unassisted.

 

What a difference 80 miles makes. The first shot is at Aisgill, and believe it or not, there's a tunnel in there somewhere. Or rather, there was when the shot was lined up. The second is at Houghton. I also filmed from a distance at Shap, but I think the sheep are more visible.

 

Very atmospheric!

 

What a charming and polite individual you are, popping up at every opportunity simply to offer personal abuse. It's been said before you are often in troll territory and yet you have the temerity to accuse others of having an axe to grind?
I hope my posts are fair and objective, I have no connections, issues or history with anyone part of WC and it is truly tiresome that every comment is deemed to be part of an agenda. Nothing of the sort, but if you do not care for my take on things find other subjects please. If you care to read my posts it acknowledges the exceptional performance of loco and crew others mentioned the loco being overloaded which I tend to agree with and borne out by evidence. I know Chris Beet to be a very considerate loco owner and as such am slightly surprised he accepted the load without a diesel, but it's his call as I also said.

 

There is no criticism of the loco, it's owner or the crew from me or anyone else so please do not imply this is the case.
The issue of loadings have been subject to very recent review and publicly stated. The guidance is that the TOC has to undertake a risk assessment of the load, route and proposed traction. Obviously this was done with a positive outcome so the train ran unaided and completed its turn albeit quite late. Presumably there will be a review of the risk assessment in advance of the next running of the same itinerary and we will have to wait and see if any changes are made.

 

Ignore him, he likes to think he's the forum know all.

 

If WC had put a diesel on to assist then the cry would have been, about Diesel assistance on a steam tour, the operator are on a hiding to nothing what ever they do, it would seem, Had their been an 7/8P in steam and in ticket, with all the paperwork done, then i am sure this would have been used in preference to an 5xp, As it was there must have not been, the 8F because of the problems pathing an 50 mph engine, must have ruled that one out, so i dont see what else short of reducing what was an sold out tour to 10 coaches, could have been done, then you have the fall out from passengers told, sorry but we have had to cancel your bookings.

 

I don't and I'm not.

 

Totally agree there is an element of rock and hard place with this due to the perennial shortage of big locos. I think an assisting loco is often an operational necessity but runs the risk of displeasing purists on board. However, the other side is that late running could equally damage customer satisfaction so has to be a consideration.

 

Sound advice, his little digs are rather tedious and I am not really sure what specific concern my posts are to him. I have concluded he simply relishes pedalling this anti WC hysteria that crops up each time something the firm is involved in gets discussed. If he and others were really so concerned for the good name of WC they wouldn't keep bitterly drawing attention to perceived criticism.

 

The number of seats sold reflects the intention of the operator to use a loco capable of the job within the guidelines.

Jubilees have a maximum of 11 according to NR guidelines. Not saying Leander is not capable or criticising WC. Just curious about the wisdom of flaunting guidelines and stretching the loco.

Great for the customers.

We are still short if class 7/8 locos.

 

Think he misses the point that this is a discussion forum where all views and opinions have equal value.

Of course if he were to march he would be the only one in step...

 

Refer back to my previous post, an overloaded loco does not need to stop with half its train over the top of a summit. We don't know what happened but bad coal is bad coal, it doesn't matter if it was load 11 or 12. It's a fact of life that hard Yorkshire steam coal doesn't exist anymore.

 

Coal quality issues are pure speculation. Not a single post has said other than the load was at the limit for the type of loco and this is supported by all sorts of factual sources. The fact the loco completed the job is not evidence it was a comfortable achievement, even had top quality coal been on hand

 

That seems to be so, any opinion proffered is just that but some folk do not seem mature enough to respond politely to posts they disagree with. For example @BigAl said more or less the same as me ie load limit for a 5X not a great idea. Didn't see anyone abusing him for anti WC postings, rightly so, it was a reasonable opinion.

 

I only said it seemed likely, why else would it need to stop for a blow up with half the train already over Wiltshire summit? You and others seem just a bit to eager to blame The TOC when anything goes wrong, especially if it's WC it seems

 

As the tickets said 46115, it sounds at least like RTC were marketing for class 7 power at least. Still, from what I saw Leander did a good job and was merely "getting it done" with the power available.

I'd be interested if anyone can confirm if this was the first unassisted load of 12 for a Jubilee over Shap post 1968.