LSWR T3 563

Per @Jamessquared, I'd be interested to know how Swanage are able to guarantee that 563 will be in good hands forever.

 

I don't know how to answer that. It is going to be owned by the SRT, which is a charity and therefore bound by charity law. I suppose if you don't think the SRT is a safe pair of hands, then I don't think I would ever be able to convince you otherwise. I hope that all on here who are worried, get behind the SRT and support them in their quest to ensure that 563 is loved and cared for for now and forever.

 

Sorry but giving something away permanently from the NATIONAL collection to one pres line cannot be the way to go surely, a very long term loan would be absolutely fine and i dont think anybody would care but just to give up ownership, no i dont agree with that after they asked for money for 4472 and then give away something else, no it aint right anyway you paint it

 

I would say thats a matter of opinion, at the end of the day railway history didn't end with the steam locomotive. The NRM need to tell the whole story and make space where items are duplicated. Where are we going to put a class 66 or a 67 in the future if the collection isn't reviewed. 563 is going to be made front and centre at Swanage where in reality it was just a footnote before.

 

Think this point is being missed by many. Surely we should be celebrating the return of an engine to the line most relevant to its history, and keep a look out for further developments? Not write SR off before they've had chance to even get 563 to the line! I'd be tempted to say the volunteers at SR have other immediate priorities this weekend than releasing a second press release stating a full 10 year plan.

 

Swanage do have some options for undercover accommodation in addition to those already mentions. There is the Loco Shed in swanage and we have an arrangement with a neighbour with another rail connected shed elsewhere on the branch. There is also Herston Works. Granted neither of these currently provide for public access but they would at least provide dry winter accommodation.

I'm sure that this gift will be the catalyst that Swanage needs to open the necessary dors for it to acquire the publicly accessible accommodation that the locomotive deserves. That is of course if Swanage chose to display it rather than overhaul it to working condition. Swanage has a long experience of working with another victorian designed locomotive, the M7 which is well maintained and successfully works regular services. The way in which Swanage looked after 30120 during its recent stays on the branch must have impressed the NRM.

Either way the gift provides an opportunity for the locomotive to be displayed in an appropiate setting. An LSWR locomotive on an LSWR railway. It would enable Swanage to tell the story of LSWR and Southern railway locomotive development from T9 563 through M7 30053, 31874 the Bullieds and even the Class33s & 4TC.

The NRM continues to acquire items (Flying Scotsman) and it stands to reason that It cant indefinitely keep growing its collection. If the curators decide that in trying to tell the complete story of railway development from Stephenson's Rocket to the bullet train and APT, that they have two many victorian 4-4-0s to display them all then the logical thing to do is to reduce the collection and send them somewhere where they will be appreciated and have the potential to steam. I suspect the economics of maintaining a large collection precluded the long term loan option.

Lets remember the the National Collection has its roots in a era before the Heritage Railway movement took off. In those early days the infant NRM was the only way in which these things could be saved for the nation. Now the established Heritage Railways are doing a fantastic job of interpreting the history of railways to a wider audience that would ever see the dusty collection in York or Shieldon.

 

In respect of the recent gift to Foxfield, Please could the readers of Steam Beano try to see further than a bit of over sensationalist journalism that seems to have whipped a number of Arm Chair Museum Curators up in to a frenzy.​

 

I think we're on the brink of great opportunities, pruning out duplicated items and gifting them to tried and tested railways makes sense to me.

Obviously items of great antiquity wont be disposed of, but there are areas where further locos could be released, the most obvious one to me is one or other of the GNR Atlantics. The dearth of LNER Group locos has often been bemoaned on here and elsewhere, here's your opportunity.

 

If there is anyone else that wants to give their locomotive away i'm your man!

I don't have anywhere to put it but if you give it to me I can apply for a bunch of public money via the lottery cos my grandads cat once brushed past it.

Someone else would have to fix it if it can be fixed. I'm busy with the Facebook page. Someone else can build a shed for it with the lottery cash. I'll have press releases to do.

Together I could be the hero of your locomotive.

I'll take it to folkestone harbour... and Irlam....

 

This guy has some great ideas. Coppernob would be an ideal contender.

 

I didn't say the SRT isn't a safe pair of hands, I asked how the SRT can guarantee perpetual security when they don't have the ability to declare items inalienable.

My concerns here are not with the destination - last time I was there was 1991 so I can't comment on the current state of play - but with the process of deaccession by the NRM. If 563 is a duplicate - and I can see how there are plenty of pre WWI express 4-4-0s - I for one would be interested to know what policy will guide any further deaccessions - and how many there may be upcoming.

 

I wouldn't get your hopes up. From your CV above you don't appear to have;
A Locomotive engineering staff, well equipped works capable of accommodating 3-4 locomotives, registered charity status, a track record of maintaining victorian locomotives, annual visitor numbers in the hundreds of thousands, a turnover approaching £3 million, Two museums in the process of acquiring accreditation status, a established relationship with grant giving bodies, a track record of achievement, long term stability and 100 year leases over 8 miles of running line, a mainline connection, plans for further expansion and undercover accommodation, an established relationship with the NRM and their earned respect.

I suspect that many of these things will be taken in to consideration by anyone looking for a home for their locomotive. Unless of course its a Hornby clockwork from ebay!

 

I'll take it!!!

Won't be cheap mind, I don't know anyone with any artillery to replicate the shrapnel damage.... this could take a lot of lottery money if I've got to fix up guns too.

 

Agreed it is only the start: the loco hasn't arrived in Dorset yet. However this topic had engendered a lot of adverse comments so far particularly with respect to the conditions in which it is to be stored and/or displayed.
If there is a plan, which you must be aware about as you mention it, then let people into some of the secret and allay all the fears and conjecture. I am not sure who the majority referred to are in your previous post.
A couple or so earlier posts question whether this type of loco is a duplication in the national collection hence its being given away. However, another thread, posted earlier today - complete with fine photograph - quotes the loco as being unique!

 

I'm not sure any organization can guarantee perpetual security. Even government bodies. A registered charity backed by passionate members, supporters and trustees is about as good as anything.

 

I for one welcome it, 563 will be back where she belongs on Southern Metals, and hopefully, one day may see a return to being an active engine, if she does, then thats one thing that could never happen under NRM ownership,as they have as part of the Science museum very strict rules to observe with keeping an artifact as original as possible, where now,if 563 needs a new dragbox etc, it can be done, if the cylinders need to be replaced or sleeved, it can be done, it will be the same engine. but more to the point it will be a living engine, hopefully at some stage, it may now be possible to have 563, 30120 and 925 all appear at a Southern gala, all in steam and working, throw in 30055 and a well tank, and thats one hell of a line up

 

I don't doubt that the Swanage is a good home for it, but my understanding of artifacts disposed of by Registered/Acredited Museums have to be offered to similarly Acredited bodies by means of official notices, with stated time periods of advertising their availability. It just seems that the Science Museum/NRM don't actually appear to be abiding by the nationally agreed rules for deaccessioned assets that apply to everybody else.......

 

I think there was a reasonable justification for the removal from the Collection of NSR No.2, in that various industrial modifications had compromised its - so to speak - integrity as an historical artefact. 563 is a very different kettle of fish.

 

The Science Museum (of which the NRM is a part) has a long standing disposals polocy which arm chair curators can see here;

https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/object-disposal/

It states, "
Recommendations for disposal have to be approved by a ‘Board of Survey’ held at the individual museum sites, then the Collections & Research Trustee Sub-committee, followed by the Science Museum Board of Trustees. In the case of railway items opinion is also sought from the SMG Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board.

When objects are approved for disposal we will always aim to keep them in the public domain. Priority will be given to National and accredited museums. We will not gift items to private individuals. Where a more suitable home in the public domain has not been found objects may be offered for sale."

So this is within their 'nationally agreed rules for deaccessioned assets'.

 

Exactly. If they have 'too many' simple expansion pre-Grouping 4-4-0s then why stop with 563? Why not get rid of 120 and 737 or 1621?