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LMS Patriot Project Updates

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Gav106, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    What a professional build.

    Very good to see use of Solidworks and modern techniques.
     
  2. BanburyKev

    BanburyKev New Member

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    Is the Patriot being designed with ERTMS in mind?

    We are designing The Unknown Warrior with all the 'new' systems in mind. This includes TPWS, GSMR and ERTMS. The big problem with ERTMS is that at the present time there are no suppliers of kit to fit a steam locomotive. The electronics at present fit into a cabinet the size of an office filing cabinet! Trying to find the space for a block of an unknown size on the tender is slightly difficult!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  3. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    I was only wondering because a presentation last year by the A1 Trust's Rob Morland suggests real progress has been made, and so long as there's sufficient space and power supply there are no fundamental obstacles to it's fitment.

    They've even had their scheme for fitting it approved by Interfleet according to the Autumn 'Communication Cord', so they should have a good idea of what's necessary.
     
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  4. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Just looking at this again and a couple questions spring to mind.

    Boring all the rivet holes after forming the wrapper?

    What standards are used for locomotive boiler design now?

    I found this, but it only specifies the material standards and relevant material data sheets, but not the geometry. Is it just a case of following best engineering practice?
    http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/2636/RSP6-locoblrs.pdf
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Put quite simply, there isn't a standard, nor has there ever been. The nearest you'll get is BS2790 but that specifically excludes railway locomotive boilers (or it did in the version I have, which may not be the latest.) It is often used as a basis, though.
     
  6. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    I did see BS2790 on my travels.

    So, who makes the call on design verification then?

    These are old and well proven designs, but what kind of scrutiny does a newly manufactured boiler endure to satisfy the regulator? From what I can see it is a case of proving the fitness via the standard testing, hydro and working pressure.
     
  7. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Rather belatedly, I'd like to add my congratulations and thanks to Kev for posting these pictures. The loco is coming on well. As an outsider, the LMS-Patriot project appears to me to be well-run and well-supported and is going to deliver a most welcome addition to the ranks of main line locomotives before too long. Sorry my well-wishing doesn't make the completion date any quicker; sadly, there are only so many railway groups of which one can become a member and support, but I hope that once it's finished, just like Tornado, 45551 will not just be confined to the historical routes and area over which the class used to operate.
     
  8. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    How does Southampton-Waterloo sound ?
     
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  9. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    How about Dover to Victoria? 10th nov 2020 100 years since the body of the unknown warrior!!

    As we have said before, the loco will go where ever the money is to keep it in steam. BUT it is also a National Memorial locomotive and as such we will try our hardest for everyone to be able to see the engine in steam taking it to as many locations as possible.
     
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  10. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    Haha, nearly right, serves me right for not checking first !
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  11. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Im sure a Pat did run out of Southampton once though. Something to do with the locomotive named after a certain regiment taking that regiment back home?
     
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  12. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Yes, February 1950. 5516 worked a special from Southampton Docks on the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment's homecoming aftertwenty five years abroad. Details in 'Claughton & Patriot 4-6-0s' by G Toms and R J Essery, Wild Swan 2006, ISBN 1 905184 19 0,
     
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  13. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    A very appealing prospect!

    Likewise, but Kent is a bit challenging for clearances. Bulleids, Brits, Std 5s, Black Fives, B1s and Tornado have run in the county without clouting anything, but I don't think any big LMS beasts have ventured into the Garden of England - more's the pity. If 45551 will fit, bring it om!
     
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  14. BanburyKev

    BanburyKev New Member

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    The Unknown Warrior is being built to comply with the requirements of the latest Loading Gauge standards. Since steam days the ballast beds are now deeper effectivly reducing height clearence undere bridges. The new standard calls for new vehicles to be no taller than 13' 0". Existing locomotives can be 13' 1" maximum! For the Patriot this means the cab structure has been slightly modified to fall within the loading gauge profile and the Chimney and Dome will be slightly shorter as well. So, getting into Kent may not be an issue with regard to loading gauge.
     
  15. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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  16. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    Kev, you stated earlier (moved with thread drift) that the Patriot boiler will be manufactured to original specification, but the original design was sufficiently over engineered to enable our insurers to accept it for 250 psi working, you said it would be run in at the original 200 psi, is that correct ? or should it read 'run at the original pressure of 200 psi', obviously with the option of running her at 250 psi.
    Hope you can clarify.
    Many thanks
    Andy
     
  17. BanburyKev

    BanburyKev New Member

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    Andy, My earlier post should have read 'it would be run in the locomotive at the original 200 psi'

    We could run the boiler at a higher pressure than original, but why would you? We are recreating an original Patriot not a 'Super
    Patriot' and it will run with appropriate loads and timings. Also, the chassis was designed to run at the original parameters. An increased pressure could lead to problems with bearings and an increase in maintenance work and costs.

    Kevin
     
  18. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Kev, happy to hear that, for people like myself who never saw an original Pat (but plenty of rebuilds) I was hoping it would be true to the design and NOT some supercharged beast, thats why I requested clarification, so I can see and hear what I have been missing !

    Thanks
    Andy
     
  19. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    53 years ago the last of the Original Patriots 45550 was cut up. And this week our project has managed to get one massive step closer towards righting that wrong. Fresh off the camera and for the first time, here is 4/5551 as you have never seen her before! A 4-6-0 for the first time. Now we need your continued support to get to the next stage. Visit www.lms-patriot.org.uk today and donate.
    IMG-20160203-WA0002.jpg
    P1110489.jpeg
     
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  20. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm choked up ! The 6th February 2016, must surely go down in the annals of railway preservation history as one of our finest days, from what you see on this page above, to 46100's return to the main line for the first time since 1962, to the triumphant return of 60103, it's all down to us, enthusiasts , from the individual who drops a quid in a collecting tin, to the people who devote their lives to restoring these magnificent beasts and all the infrastructure that goes with them, I salute you, this was one of our best.
     

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